quasi-deep AA hand

[schwza]

ok, deep for me, since i'm all stt/mtt these days.

sorry, couldn't get ub converter to work.

ub, 100+9. 10 handed, 10/20. early, villain has not done anything remarkable. don't remember where he got his chips. other stacks are around starting value of 2.5k.

villain (3.4k) limps utg+1. guy (2.5k) limps MP1. i (2430) raise to 100 in MP3. folds to villain who calls, other guy folds.

flop (250): J /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

villain checks, i bet 200, villain calls.

turn (650): J /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

villain checks, i ?

i have 2130 left.

now if i had started with 60 bbs instead of 120 - a nice, familiar level 1 party hand - i'd have ~900 left here and the only choice would be whether to push now or bet 400 and 500 on the river. but now what?

[gumpzilla]

The odds are good that he's planning on calling you down with a flush draw or a J. In either case I think he'll continue to pay and I want him to do so. So I bet out about 350 here. If a heart or J comes and it somehow gets checked to me on the river, I check behind. I'll probably call a smallish bet in either circumstance. On a blank river, I bet about 550 if checked to.

[woodguy]

I like a bet of 500.

No reason to think you are behind, although I hate the board pairing.

I think getting value for you hand is more important than keeping the pot small here.

If he c/r, you probably have to let it go, but I continue with the assumption that I'm in the lead.

You could check behind an hopefully induce a bluff when ahead, but giving the free card to beat you is a catastrophy, and he hasn't shown to be on anything but a draw yet.

I bet for value.

Regards,
Woodguy

650 in pot, i pot it, making it a mistake when he calls on draw. I think my hand is good here. Only hand ahead of me is 55, 77, JJ (JJ likely to have raised preflop) and A7s, all other hands hitting boat, not likely to have called preflop raise. Likely range of villain is PP or 2 hearts.

this is a though one i think.villian limps UTG,then he calls your raise of 5BB getting something like 2.5:1 odds(very rough estimate) ,then he checks,abd then calls your pot sized bet...
what range of hands do you think would justify that kinda play?
unless he is a total donkey (which im not saying he is not)then i think he either made a set on the flop,or his got something like JTh.i would say just check here and try to get a chip show down.

[ QUOTE ]
I like a bet of 500.

No reason to think you are behind, although I hate the board pairing.

I think getting value for you hand is more important than keeping the pot small here.

If he c/r, you probably have to let it go, but I continue with the assumption that I'm in the lead.

You could check behind an hopefully induce a bluff when ahead, but giving the free card to beat you is a catastrophy, and he hasn't shown to be on anything but a draw yet.

I bet for value.

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]
woodguy i actually responded to this before i read any of the replys as i usually do.
but would you not the hand would be playd the same way if villain had 55?
limp in EP for the implied odds,decide to call the 100 raise cuz if you flop a set you can get paid off,
flop your set and check,then just cold call the bet,and the turn gives you a full house....???

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
woodguy i actually responded to this before i read any of the replys as i usually do.
but would you not the hand would be playd the same way if villain had 55?
limp in EP for the implied odds,decide to call the 100 raise cuz if you flop a set you can get paid off,
flop your set and check,then just cold call the bet,and the turn gives you a full house....???

[/ QUOTE ]

He's gotta tell me he has a set before I give him credit for one.

Being this deep players often chase draws due to higher implied odds.

If he c/r then he's got something good and I probably dump it, but I'm not playing scared until he does something to tell me.

I need to make more here when I'm ahead, because I'm ahead here very often, than keep it small and get to showdown cheap.

Regards,
Woodguy

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm not playing scared until he does something to tell me.



[/ QUOTE ]
is the objective of trapping some one not to let them get scared untill you you have made the most profite out of the situation?i mean how are you suppose to tell a trap if you dont get scared when the other guy has not given you something to be scared about?

[schwza]

here's the rest of the hand...

ub, 100+9. 10 handed, 10/20. early, villain has not done anything remarkable. don't remember where he got his chips. other stacks are around starting value of 2.5k.

villain (3.4k) limps utg+1. guy (2.5k) limps MP1. i (2430) raise to 100 in MP3. folds to villain who calls, other guy folds.

flop (250): J /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

villain checks, i bet 200, villain calls.

turn (650): J /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

villain checks, i bet 500, villain calls

river (1150): J /images/graemlins/club.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

villain bets 160, i call. (i have 1630 before calling).

i thought about trying to sqeeze value out of a J, but decided to just see a showdown. he does not have the Jx that i was expecting but instead the bizarre 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif.

if he c/r's the turn, i have to fold, right? what if he min c/r's the turn? i certainly can't call hoping to improve.

[ QUOTE ]


if he c/r's the turn, i have to fold, right? what if he min c/r's the turn? i certainly can't call hoping to improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm too much of a DONK to fold to a check raise at turn, because as in my original post there are only a few hands that are ahead of you, and very possibly an over pair to the board (or flush draw) would play his hand this way.

[schwza]

this would be a very strange line for QQ/KK, starting with the limp-call preflop.

it would be a pretty tricky way to play a flush draw. i figure you have to get outplayed by some particular hand on any line you take, so i'd like my chink in the armor to be a line that villain will rarely take.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
is the objective of trapping some one not to let them get scared untill you you have made the most profite out of the situation?i mean how are you suppose to tell a trap if you dont get scared when the other guy has not given you something to be scared about?

[/ QUOTE ]

By your reasoning everytime someone checks I'm being trapped.

Regards,
Woodguy

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
if he c/r's the turn, i have to fold, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Usually.

This hand makes me want c/r my draws on the turn instead of 3 betting them on the flop. Looks stronger.

I love his blocking bet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

nh.

Regards,
Woodguy

you've never limp called preflop. opponents did this to me twice last night (once in a 9 player STT, with AA, and the other in the stars 45k, with KK). I almost never limp my monster starting hands, because i hate getting outflopped by the 34o limper and I like to have money going in the pot while i am still favorite. I agree that this line is unusual or tricky for KK or QQ, but playing a flush draw this way from someone who you do not have a read on has become too standard in online play. Now that you show his hand, he really donked this up, I make a note on him being a calling station fish.

[ QUOTE ]
No reason to think you are behind, although I hate the board pairing.

I think getting value for you hand is more important than keeping the pot small here.

If he c/r, you probably have to let it go, but I continue with the assumption that I'm in the lead.

You could check behind an hopefully induce a bluff when ahead, but giving the free card to beat you is a catastrophy, and he hasn't shown to be on anything but a draw yet.

I bet for value.

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, although i think the board pairing helps your hand rather than hurts it. how many hands with a 7 in it are gonna be in this hand. 67s, 78s. The 7 makes it less likely that those are held.
I completely agree though... I dont ever give someone credit for a hand (set, etc.) unless they convince me. esp. online.

[DeuceKicker]

[ QUOTE ]
I love his blocking bet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I don't think it accomplishes anything a blocking bet is designed for, and it's not nearly large enough for a bluff. It looks to me like Villain just threw away an extra 160.

Edit: On second look, the pot isn't as large as I thought on the river, so the bet may have some tiny FE, but I still don't like it.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love his blocking bet. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I don't think it accomplishes anything a blocking bet is designed for, and it's not nearly large enough for a bluff. It looks to me like Villain just threw away an extra 160.


[/ QUOTE ] You need to recharge your sarcasm detector. I think the batteries are dead.

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]

You need to recharge your sarcasm detector. I think the batteries are dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup.

Regards,
Woodguy

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

if he c/r's the turn, i have to fold, right? what if he min c/r's the turn? i certainly can't call hoping to improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not convinced. If he c/r's the turn, I think that can very well be a combination draw - J and flush draw, the flush and gutshot he showed you. I don't think 55 or JJ is going to go slowly on a board this flushy, which means the only thing you need to be afraid of is a 7, which is pretty unlikely given how the action unfolded.

I'd call the c/r, not hoping to improve but thinking my hand was often good. I also think that many opponents can c/r you on the turn and then check the river, even if their draw hits.

[billyjex]

I would never fold to a turn c/r. People do stupid things w/ top pair, even in a $100 UB tourney w/ deeper stacks and decent players. There's also two flush draws on board. Also, since their are "better" players there are trickier players who may think they can semibluff the turn and push you off a better hand.

[DeuceKicker]

Sorry. I thought about that after I posted, but figured I'd let the question stand just in case I was missing something obvious.