55: Big Stacks Duel on the Bubble

[Degen]

No reads:

***** Hand History for Game 3193516724 *****
150/300 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 18240344) - Tue Dec 13 07:34:03 EST 2005
Table Table 67290 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: DegenFarang (4000)
Seat 3: BLACK_JAK111 (3310)
Seat 6: scottishegg (1765)
Seat 9: r_su_27 (925)
r_su_27 posts small blind (75)
DegenFarang posts big blind (150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to DegenFarang [ Ts, As ]
BLACK_JAK111 raises (300) to 300
scottishegg folds.
r_su_27 folds.
DegenFarang calls (150)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9c, Ad, 4h ]
DegenFarang checks.
BLACK_JAK111 bets (150)
DegenFarang raises (700) to 700
BLACK_JAK111 raises (1100) to 1250
DegenFarang calls (550)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qd ]
DegenFarang checks.
BLACK_JAK111 bets (1760)
BLACK_JAK111 is all-In.
DegenFarang ????


There are several areas in this hand that are botchable. PF I think I played alright, from there I have no idea.

I can't remember the last time a hand made my head hurt so much.


Comments welcome on all streets.

I would say he must have flopped a big hand from his puny lead out bet combined with his minimal reraise, likely aces up.. can't imagine A10 or worse playing it that way really, or kings or jacks or anything like that. I'd grit my teeth and be pissed to fold.

Not to mention on the bubble he will hopefully be a lot more reluctant to be making a play on you here..

I play preflop the same. The c-r on the flop is good too, but I think you have to lay it down when he 3-bets. You can't call his push on the river.

i fold. he wouldnt of called your turn raise if he hadnt got u beat. i think u could of raised a smaller amount on the turn, more like 450-500 would have the same effect.

well played though but u have all the info u need and its tellin u your beat.no shame in it so on to the next hand

[TheUsher]

These types of hands I tend to play more passively because I really have no intention of playing a big pot with another big stack. Since the flop has no draws I'm more likely to just check/call, then lead turn something like 1/2-2/3 pot, if raised there then I'd make the decision to call and block river or just fold turn. Since pot flop is 675, and u check/called 150, it would have been 975 on turn where u could bet 575 or so and another 900 or so on the river. This line would use about half your total stack all the way until the river and gives you 2 streets where you could fold. I honestly think the flop c/r is one of the worst options as you're bloating the pot OOP with really no idea where you're at, in addition to not getting value from whatever he's holding as only his strongest hands that beat you are going to stay in.

Edit: Oh and PF action I'm about 50/50 on calling and potting it there since most people that min raise with those stacks on bubble are donks.

[tigerite]

I c/c the flop and lead the turn - if he calls or raises me there, I am done with the hand.

[Postiga]

I love the way you played it until you called the flop 3-bet. He certainly has you beat. Were you worried about metagame factors?

[player1]

the way it was played out, i would fold on the turn. on the flop, since there are no draws, c/r to around 450 should give you the same info.

other option, reraise PR to 800-1000 and go from there (ie. fold to a push, ...)

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
These types of hands I tend to play more passively because I really have no intention of playing a big pot with another big stack. Since the flop has no draws I'm more likely to just check/call, then lead turn something like 1/2-2/3 pot, if raised there then I'd make the decision to call and block river or just fold turn. Since pot flop is 675, and u check/called 150, it would have been 975 on turn where u could bet 575 or so and another 900 or so on the river. This line would use about half your total stack all the way until the river and gives you 2 streets where you could fold. I honestly think the flop c/r is one of the worst options as you're bloating the pot OOP with really no idea where you're at, in addition to not getting value from whatever he's holding as only his strongest hands that beat you are going to stay in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to note the other day that theusher strategy posts should go on a milk carton, but I didn't want the crazy lookin' bald guy mad at me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I think he nailed this one, post more please! The flop c/r really makes this hand a bitch.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
These types of hands I tend to play more passively because I really have no intention of playing a big pot with another big stack. Since the flop has no draws I'm more likely to just check/call, then lead turn something like 1/2-2/3 pot, if raised there then I'd make the decision to call and block river or just fold turn. Since pot flop is 675, and u check/called 150, it would have been 975 on turn where u could bet 575 or so and another 900 or so on the river. This line would use about half your total stack all the way until the river and gives you 2 streets where you could fold. I honestly think the flop c/r is one of the worst options as you're bloating the pot OOP with really no idea where you're at, in addition to not getting value from whatever he's holding as only his strongest hands that beat you are going to stay in.

Edit: Oh and PF action I'm about 50/50 on calling and potting it there since most people that min raise with those stacks on bubble are donks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn. Missed this post as it was made literally 1 min before my own. Yeah, your line matches mine almost perfectly.

What TheUsher says seems to make sense. It makes me realize how little I know about post flop poker. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

And do you play the $55's now or did everybody just move up?

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
These types of hands I tend to play more passively because I really have no intention of playing a big pot with another big stack. Since the flop has no draws I'm more likely to just check/call, then lead turn something like 1/2-2/3 pot, if raised there then I'd make the decision to call and block river or just fold turn. Since pot flop is 675, and u check/called 150, it would have been 975 on turn where u could bet 575 or so and another 900 or so on the river. This line would use about half your total stack all the way until the river and gives you 2 streets where you could fold. I honestly think the flop c/r is one of the worst options as you're bloating the pot OOP with really no idea where you're at, in addition to not getting value from whatever he's holding as only his strongest hands that beat you are going to stay in.

Edit: Oh and PF action I'm about 50/50 on calling and potting it there since most people that min raise with those stacks on bubble are donks.

[/ QUOTE ]

great post, i need to start doing more analysis on the spot like this...controlling the size of the pot etc

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
I love the way you played it until you called the flop 3-bet. He certainly has you beat. Were you worried about metagame factors?

[/ QUOTE ]

In retrospect, that was a bad flop call.

The timer was down to 2 seconds and I clicked call in rage of not knowing what to do. I looked at again for awhile on the brick turn and couldn't decide whether to lead, push or check/fold or check/call. I checked he pushed and I stared at it again for a long while.

If I had controlled the pot size by check calling the flop this would have been much easier to play out and probably have cost me about the same.

Live and learn.

[bigt439]

Haven't read replies yet, but you have to make your decision on the flop. That doesn't mean you have to push necessarily, but you have to know what you're doing on the turn. Obviously he's pushing... what'd you expect?

I think you played it fine pf, and the c/r is a good plan, but when he minraises that are you really hoping he has A8 that often? (I fold to the flop 3-bet). Given this action he had you crushed on the flop so often...

EDIT: Yeah, check call lead turn is a much better line than c/r. Accomplishes the exact same thing, but keeps the pot smaller and leaves you one less street to navigate OOP. I don't know how I didn't include that in my intial post.