$109's... I'm out for dead presidents to represent me [Archive]

bigt439

12-13-2005, 01:24 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1590)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t960)
UTG+1 (t940)
MP1 (t1660)
MP2 (t900)
Hero (t990)
CO (t960)
Button (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 2 folds, Hero raises to t75, 1 fold, Button calls t75, SB raises to t700, 1 fold, UTG+1 folds, Hero ? ,

I feel strangely fishy posting this hand.

UCF THAYER

12-13-2005, 01:26 AM

Fold with no read on SB.

Femto

12-13-2005, 01:31 AM

I fold here, but I just posted a similar hand and a lot of people seemed to think that at least at the $55s, a ton of people push A-junk here. I don't believe it though, and I feel fairly good about letting this one go.

If you are certain he has a pair, he probably has JJ/QQ a little more than 25% of the time, and KK/AA about 75% of the time.

UCF THAYER

12-13-2005, 01:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold here, but I just posted a similar hand and a lot of people seemed to think that at least at the $55s, a ton of people push A-junk here. I don't believe it though, and I feel fairly good about letting this one go.

If you are certain he has a pair, he probably has JJ/QQ a little more than 25% of the time, and KK/AA about 75% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to sabotage this thread, but i would have pushed in your scenario.

12-13-2005, 01:34 AM

check your hand history, he some how accumulated 600 chips since the start. He may have shown a hand down, and you may get some info as to how good a player he is.

sofere

12-13-2005, 01:38 AM

Trust me...I've seen small pockets and Ax push here plenty of times at the $55s, I have yet to see AA do this. This is an instacall at the $55s.

Femto

12-13-2005, 01:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold here, but I just posted a similar hand and a lot of people seemed to think that at least at the $55s, a ton of people push A-junk here. I don't believe it though, and I feel fairly good about letting this one go.

If you are certain he has a pair, he probably has JJ/QQ a little more than 25% of the time, and KK/AA about 75% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to sabotage this thread, but i would have pushed in your scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]
May I ask why?

Femto

12-13-2005, 01:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Trust me...I've seen small pockets and Ax push here plenty of times at the $55s, I have yet to see AA do this. This is an instacall at the $55s.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just as often I have made this play and been up against AK/KK/AA the vast majority of the time at the $55s. We are still in the very early stages of the tourney and I just believe that we are more likely to ITM if we sit this one out. There will be plenty of better opportunities later. Getting all-in level 1 with QQ seems like a huge mistake to me, no matter how you look at it.

bigt439

12-13-2005, 01:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Trust me...I've seen small pockets and Ax push here plenty of times at the $55s, I have yet to see AA do this. This is an instacall at the $55s.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a 109.

bigt439

12-13-2005, 01:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
check your hand history, he some how accumulated 600 chips since the start. He may have shown a hand down, and you may get some info as to how good a player he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I actually did check mid-hand and he did some unspectacular stuff with a turned tptk, and rivered two pair. Like bet call, bet raise call line.... Nothing interesting really.

inyaface

12-13-2005, 01:53 AM

A NORMAL NON DONK would have no less then 10 10 + and aq suited + and I think thats very generous. I would say probably looking at JJ+ and AK and you can probably take JJ out of there. Against a bad player you could be looking at something like 55+, any ace kj sooted and a whole other variety of junk. I think the preflop action on the hand where he got the 600 chips is very imporant. If it was opened and he made an ak tptk its very different then if he called a raise and made a kq tptk.

microbet

12-13-2005, 02:15 AM

Even in the $109s I have to have a read to let one person (button calling doesn't scare me) make me fold QQ preflop. AK is probably the most likely hand, but I think QQ- is substantially more likely than KK+.

z32fanatic

12-13-2005, 02:20 AM

Push. There are plenty of donks in the 1st level at the 109s to make this a profitable situation. I don't think he would reraise to 700 with AA, probably more like 450 or 400. I'm definitely not folding here.

durron597

12-13-2005, 02:31 AM

Call, it's only 1 raise over 1 limper, if he can have JJ and AK (including offsuit) only you should call... (47% equity plus dead money)... any wider and it's a really clear call.

Femto

12-13-2005, 02:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call, it's only 1 raise over 1 limper, if he can have JJ and AK (including offsuit) only you should call... (47% equity plus dead money)... any wider and it's a really clear call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but there isn't much dead money, and that seems like a pretty small edge to take this early on... Am I missing something?

durron597

12-13-2005, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call, it's only 1 raise over 1 limper, if he can have JJ and AK (including offsuit) only you should call... (47% equity plus dead money)... any wider and it's a really clear call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but there isn't much dead money, and that seems like a pretty small edge to take this early on... Am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, what you're missing is that a huge % of the time he can have TT and 99 and AQs...

Femto

12-13-2005, 02:42 AM

ahhh

Apathy

12-13-2005, 02:43 AM

Not sure why people are telling you to fold I would never ever fold this against an unknown. There are like 2 215ers I would fold this to.. maybe...

bigt439

12-13-2005, 02:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure why people are telling you to fold I would never ever fold this against an unknown. There are like 2 215ers I would fold this to.. maybe...

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, I didn't, but I thought there might be some debate. This also is a seguay to my next question... JJ?

Apathy

12-13-2005, 02:51 AM

JJ is much more opponent dependant id want to see the hand he picked up 600 chips on.

pineapple888

12-13-2005, 02:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold with no read on SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Push with no read on SB.

adanthar

12-13-2005, 03:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold with no read on SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Push with no read on SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Push with the read that this is AK, like, so very very often.

bigt439

12-13-2005, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold with no read on SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Push with no read on SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Push with the read that this is AK, like, so very very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

How low do you go then?

Big Limpin'

12-13-2005, 03:32 AM

I wouldnt beat him to the pot or anything, but eventaully i would call. The ultimate reason is that its level 1, the guys who could make this bet with AQ/JJ are still around.

I just scanned prior replies, seems ppl put him on a PP. Which could be, but i think the most frequent hand you are shown here is AK. Dude is in the SB, so he can nullify his OOPness, and see the river. Others may differ, but if I was the villain, AK is about the only hand i would push from SB.

Anyhoo, AK vs QQ is worth it, dead money and all. All other aces are in trouble vs you. And, if its a PP, even at 109, i dount its AA/KK any more often than it is <JJ.

So call.

Know what? I'll make you and your wack mans fold like bad hands
BL'

bigt439

12-13-2005, 03:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt beat him to the pot or anything, but eventaully i would call. The ultimate reason is that its level 1, the guys who could make this bet with AQ/JJ are still around.

I just scanned prior replies, seems ppl put him on a PP. Which could be, but i think the most frequent hand you are shown here is AK. Dude is in the SB, so he can nullify his OOPness, and see the river. Others may differ, but if I was the villain, AK is about the only hand i would push from SB.

Anyhoo, AK vs QQ is worth it, dead money and all. All other aces are in trouble vs you. And, if its a PP, even at 109, i dount its AA/KK any more often than it is <JJ.

So call.

Know what? I'll make you and your wack mans fold like bad hands
BL'

[/ QUOTE ]

Post more. If not for a good analysis, then at least to continue my rap quotes that barely anyone else gets.

Scuba Chuck

12-13-2005, 04:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt beat him to the pot or anything, but eventaully i would call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe this is semantics. But why would you just call? Can you fold after you've committed 70% of your stack?

z32fanatic

12-13-2005, 04:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure why people are telling you to fold I would never ever fold this against an unknown. There are like 2 215ers I would fold this to.. maybe...

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry, I didn't, but I thought there might be some debate. This also is a seguay to my next question... JJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ I would probably reluctantly call, fold against the solid 109ers.

Big Limpin'

12-13-2005, 04:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldnt beat him to the pot or anything, but eventaully i would call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe this is semantics. But why would you just call? Can you fold after you've committed 70% of your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didnt check stacks, assumed he was pushing about what i have.

In a real game, i would notice that, and have pushed.

Its somewhat moot, as i'm not going anywhere. Any money not already in is going to middle on flop.