Playing Against Friends...

[WizeGuy33]

When playing on the same table that a friend is at(whether it be at home or at an establishment), being the person that I am, I try to save them money when I know I've got the better of them. It's hard for me to take their money for my profit, and I imagine other people have these same feelings as well. At times, I've told them to fold pocket Q's against my AA and so on. Told them to fold when I was holding the nuts on the river. I don't have a problem doing this, but recently, this wasn't reciprocated. I've had the same friends put moves on me to get more money. Also, they have led me to believe that I should fold because they have the better of me, but when the cards are turned over I see that they didn't. Maybe I'm too soft. Maybe I should just play against them the same way I do everyone else. But, the thought of taking a big hunk of change off your friend that will put him in a bad mood for the day (or couple days) does not appeal to me. But if I'm not going to get the same type of resect in return, what the hell. Does anyone have any thoughts or experiences with this?

[KingToad]

I used to play with friends (6-8) every week at someone's house. We all went in knowing we were there too play, Sure, we threw comments back and forth at the table, maybe it was sincere, or not. We, used to tell them to "Get oooout", which basically meant I had you beat. Like I said sometimes this could be a bluff. We were all adults, sure if I new someone had lost there bank I would feel badly, if I knew they couldn't really afford it. But, the general idea among us all, was don't play if you can't take the losses. Or, only come with $25-50. Because there were nights I would walk away with $200 less in my pockets, but I would certainly love it when I was the man, walking away with $500. I think you need to let it be known you are there to play, if that means taking the money, so be it. IMO

[RockLobster]

Maybe I'm too soft. Maybe I should just play against them the same way I do everyone else.

Yes, and yes.

There are posts on this subject, and a lot of people here feel that it's collusion to play as you described. Now if it's a table made up of all friends, then you're just being nice. But if you're at a poker room, and you treat one person at the table differently than you do the others, this is not a good thing.

Anyway, sounds like they're taking advantage of you. Use your past niceness and sincerity as a front to corn 'em hard at your next game. You've got their trust, now use it against them.

[punkass]

I've played at a game almost daily (all 4 years of college, and then some) with the same chunk of friends. Everyone is good friends with everyone else. And we understand that we are playing with money for keeps. If you lose $200, we will take it. Will we feel bad and perhaps buy you a beer, probably. But all of us know the risks.

I do, however know exactly where you are coming from. One instance, we were playing 7-stud hi Chicago (hi-hand splits with highest spade in the hole). It went headsup, and I have the Qs in the hole, with 2 queens showing. On 6th street, my friend has showing 4 Jacks. He bets of course, and I call, hoping to split. On the river (after a dealer misdeal mindyou) I get dealt the case Q. I check, and my friend bets. I call.

If I wasn't playing with friends, hells yea I'd be laughing all the way to the bank and raising on the river, probably into a very confused opponent.

So it is better to bring this up to your friends. It seems clear that they are very willing to be risking all of their chips, and will be happy to have yours as well. If you pushed me off a pot, I wouldn't think less of you as a friend. I'd think you were an aggressive poker player, and ruthless at that, but not less a friend.

[MRBAA]

Trouble is friends are likely not to remain so if they play for money that matters. That's why my friendly games are for small stakes -- where it doesn't matter much if you're nice or not. Or if there are misdeals, false bets, etc. etc. I go the casino or card club to play hard for real money. However when my good poker playing friend and I are in a full ring game, we do have a rule that if we get head up, neither of us will bet without a set or better. This very rarely happens (often never in a session) and saves us from taking one another's money, which we don't want to do. But if any other players are in the pot, then we play straight up.

[bernie]

since most of my response would be unprintable ill only say this...

"At times, I've told them to fold pocket Q's against my AA and so on. Told them to fold when I was holding the nuts on the river."

if you do this to a bud at the table, and play hard against a new/unknown player in this same situation, you deserve to lose every chip in front of you. youre bad for the game.

boo hoo that theyre playing the game it's supposed to be played. which is more unethical, the above quote, or them using your 'goodness' against you.

poker isnt a 'friendly' game.

b

[Mike]

I agree with all above with two additions.

1. Talk to your friends about how they want to play only if this is a home game. You should play by rules you all agree to.

2. If it is a home game and all of you are kind of playing for fun, set a limit you play for. All start with $xx.xx amount and if you lose it, your out for the night - no buy ins.

If you are not in a friendly home game, you are making a major mistake, costing yourself lots of chips, and indirectly cheating at the table - for the reasons above.

If it's heads up at the river and my opponent is down _serious_ dollars and on his last few bets, after I bet I may say 'don't call'. That's as generous as it gets with me.

[mobes]

Why would you take it easy on a friend? When my buddies and I sit in a cardroom together, there is noone sitting that I want to pop more than on of my friends. The only time I would take it easy would be if they were running REALLY badly.

[baseball38]

Man stick it to em. Either that or don't sit at the same table as them.

baseball38 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

[rkiray]

Yeah, I have lots of thoughts about this. I don't remember who said it, but one of the old time Texas players said "I'd check raise my grandmother for her medicine money." IMHO this is the only way to play poker. If you don't have this attitude you shouldn't play (home games where everyone takes a fun attitude is different). I hate it when friends play soft against each other in public card rooms. Basically this is a form of collusion IMHO, and when you do this you are basically a con man and a theif. You have to play everyone the same way. I think you should get a new hobby besides poker.

[WizeGuy33]

I don't think some of the comments were necessary, but to those who respectfully gave me advice, I thank you. I consider myself still a beginner, and any words of wisdom are much appreciated. It's an easy thing to fix, and it's as good as done.

[Michael Davis]

WizeGuy,

Play your friends as hard as you can, but then (if they are willing), discuss the way you both played the hand later on. Have this discussion in an open and honest manner. This way, you can still play hard at the tables, but you can learn more from these hands than those against strangers.

This only works with friends who are both good players.

-Mike