Can someone who hates the Lakers...

tell me why? Although not a fan of theirs, I certainly respect the organization and what they have accomplished thru the years. This is how I view that franchise:


Was until recently run by Jerry West, one of the classiest guys ever to be associated with the NBA as a player, coach and GM.


Jerry Buss, the owner, is very low key, not a loud motuh publicity hound (see Mark Cuban of the Mavs) who has no problem opening his wallet to ensure the franchise gets/retains quality players.


Although not a huge Phil Jackson fan (for my money, Larry Brown and George Karl are the 2 best coaches in the NBA) you have to respect his record. He knows how to bring home the favorite.


The team-basically two all star and a bunch of guys who know their roles. Whats wrong with that?


Shaq: Has developed his game more and more, becoming a good passer when double teamed in the post, and has developed a nice touch in the 8-10 foot range from the basket. Still a monster who throws his weight around, but hell, whats he suppose to do, play like Joe Barry Carroll???


Kobe: I think he is a tad selfish, wants to be the next Michael and sometimes forces shots and doesnt play team ball. Also, an a-hole in the locker room . Okay, maybe this is the only reason to dislike the Lakers.


The fans: If you hate a team because of their fans, thats like hating someone because they have relatives who are jerks.


So, how does this all add up to someone "hating the Lakers?"

I hate the Lakers because I a Sacto Kings fan.

dont you mean the ChoKings?

While hate is a strong word, I'll say I strongly dislike the Lakers. I grew up in LA. It has to do with an attitude. I started forming this opinion while a student at Humboldt State in the 70s. I saw the plans that LA had for taking the water from the north and shipping it to LA, with little consideration for what it would do to the anadromous runs of fish. I've now been in Montana for over 20 years and many of the attitudes that people bring to Montana from California rub me the wrong way. So its fun to dislike everything that has to do with California. Its funny but some of my favorite trout bums have been from California.


Excuse me for babbling but the attitude the Lakers project reminds me of everything I wanted to leave behind when I left California. I don't think I'm as seriously red neck as this post may lead you to believe.

I think the San Fran 49ers are a great organization. I hate the team.


You don't need rational reasons to hate teams. I grew up in St. Louis and then Chicago. Because of this, I hate all NY or LA teams. Period. Don't have or need a reason.


George Karl???? He is one of the most underachieving coaches in NBA history. His failure to even make the playoffs this year was another in a long line of failures in his carreer. Seattle should have reached two more finals during his tenure there. Getting beat by Denver in round 1 was unexcusable.


Larry Brown is definitely one of the best teachers in basketball history. If healthy, I think that last years 76ers team could have upset the lakers. However, his failure to win an NBA title is telling, IMO. Top 6 or 7 all time NBA coach, along with Riley and Wilkins. Not in Phil or Red's league due to the championships.

George Karl took a Seattle team that basically had Gary Payton, and thats it, to the finals. After he left, that franchise went into the tank with the same group of players. He's in Milwaukee with 3 decent players and absolutlely no one else (you are in serious trouble when Darvin Ham and Earvin Johnson are your other two starters). His 3 big guys are all head cases who only care about scoring and play absolutely no defense, despite his efforts to teach them. Without him, this team is no where.

I grew up in Hawaii where we got Dodger and Laker broadcasts every day. No other teams bothered to send their airwaves our way, so I grew up and into a huge Dodger and Laker fan. I absolutely hate LA (the city), but I love those teams. As Clarkmeister said, I don't need a reason to hate the SF Giants, the Yankees or any other Dodger opponent, except the fact that I am a Dodger fan.

also, BTW, I root for players because of their abilities on the field, so when I say I'm a huge Barry Bonds and Mike Piazza fan, it's only because they absolutely mash the ball, and not for any other reason.

I can remember going to sleep as a kid listening to Vince Scully and Jerry Dogget(sp?), also Chick Hearn when the Lakers played. I was a fan then but for many years now I find myself rooting against all LA teams.

That team was a dominant franchise in the West. They failed multiple times as the #1 seed to reach the finals with teams that were expected to at least win the West, if not the NBA. Gary Paytin is one of the 5 best point guards in history, they had Shawn Kemp in his prime. Kemp was widely considered a top 5-10 NBA player at the time. His Finals performance against the Bulls valideated those beliefs.


Add in Hershey Hawkins, Detlef Schrempf, Sam Perkins, Nate McMillin and a deep experienced bench and this team had LOADS of talent. Losing to Denver in round 1 was an embarassment. They were favored over LA in back to back disappointing playoff losses.


As far as Milwaukee...he couldn't finish .500 with 3 near all-stars, in the weakest conference in recent memory. Embarassing and worthy of getting canned.

Old habits die hard. I'm from Boston and it is inbred to hate the Lakers and the Yankees.


The 80's Lakers of Showtime fame. The slicked backed hairstyle of Riley, the incessant whining of Kareem (I've never commited a foul in my career) Jabbar, thug Rambis, matinee idol Johnson, how could you not hate that team. Like Seinfeld said now I just hate the laundry as opposed to the team or players.


Same applies to the Yankees. The teams that have been so dominant the last 5 years have likeable players (I'm getting queesy just writing that)but you still root against them and hate the other side. It's no fun if you can't get worked up and unrationally hate another cities team.

Yeah, I said it, they cheat. Although I don't blame them, if I was in there shoes and I got all the calls they did Id keep on doing what I was doing.


How many times against sacramento and even tonight against NJ did you hear the commentators say something like


"I dont see how thats a foul"


or


"Where was the call on that"


I bet if I had a tape I could count 25 times in the last 4 games I heard the announcer say something like that, and I bet I could count another 25 that were missed calls or phantom fouls in the Lakers favor that the announcers said nothing about.


Just my opinion.


Ryan


P.S. How can you name two coaches who have never won a title and say they are better than Phil. Now thats ludacris.

im not a b-ball fan, but i remember it well. that sonic team was doomed to fail. kemp doing good in the playoffs? we made it there despite him. though i will give him credit that he played a great playoff, the fact that he gave only 50% at best during the regular season sucked.


as far as payton, though he's good, hes a damn cancer on your team. too many times did i read about him blowing up on teammates and the coach. 'scuse me cuz, your just a player. he helped ruin alot of moral on the team. though hes calmed a bit, primarily, i think because mcmillan wont put up with it, it doesnt excuse his past actions.


that team was destined to implode...and it did, multiple times


the problem with Karl? he never learned the 'if it isnt broke, dont fix it" concept. hed try to switch around lineups in the playoffs, ruining any chemistry. if he left it alone, i think he wouldve won 1.


the denver series was an embarassment. and they deserved it.


b

The first adult level book I read was Boys of Summer by Roger Kahn. When my dad used to pitch batting practice to me before little league games, I would go through the lineup: Lopes, Russell, Smith, Garvey, Cey, Baker, Monday, Yeager, Rhoden (best hitting pitcher in the game at the time).

I kind of wavered a little when the O'Malley's sold out to the evil empire, but I stayed on course when Tommy Lasorda stayed with the Blue. The Dodgers are kind of in my blood at this point.

The Lakers, too, as long as Magic is associated with them.

Know what you're saying. Dusty Baker? great guy and ex Dodger. Barry? Awesome talent. JT Snow? a class act all the way. Love watching the players, but hate the Laundry.

Alec -


I hope the Lakers lose, but I don't necessarily hate them. Well, sorta. I mean, Shaq is a farce. His exchanges with Cuban rate a perfect 10 out of 10 on the unintentional comedy scale. I loved Cuban's retort when Shaq called him lucky to be rich. Mark said "Yeah, like you PLANNED on being 7'2, 320 lbs." Great stuff.


And Shaq is a master at attacking the refs through the media, to get favorable calls. I'll say no more on this.


And I loathe Phil Jackson. I detest the fact that guys like Devaen George and Samaki Walker think they are good, because they'll get a ring.


But the real reason I hope they lose has to do with the fans. Basketball is played for the fans. Pretty simple, right? Well, when you have the WORST SPORTS FANS IN AMERICA, they just flat don't deserve a championship. Give it to the Pacers, the Celtics, the Raptors, or a team with good, loyal fans. Bad fans don't deserve championships.


There is a bit of justice, though. The fans have to watch Mark Madsen dance.

I hate the lakers because I hate all dynasties in any sport. I hated the Bulls and I hate the Yankees just as much.


That is why the NFL is the best professional sports league right now. No more dynasties.


natedogg

nate-web@thegrovers.com

John,


As a life-long Sox fan, too--my grandfather and I listened to every game on the radio in 1967 and 1966!--I never quite worked up any real animosity towards the Yankees. And, the last few years have been tough because of players such as Jeter, Williams, Knoblauch, and Rivera who, in my opinion, play the game with class. Still, though, part of me celebrated along with the Diamondbacks last year. Maybe all along it's been the Yankee fans I've hated.


Now, the Lakers, on the other hand . . . let's just say that Johnny Most affected my emotions a bit.


John

How are they the worst fans in America? How about the Oakland A's fans who usually packed the coleseum with 40000 empty seats every game the past few seasons when the A's were on top? How about the Atlanta fans for all sports who can't even be bothered to show up? They couldn't sell out their baseball playoff games last season.

A few years ago, when the giants were still in the Stick, they used to bag on the Dodger fans for showing up in the third inning and leaving in the seventh. To my calculations, the dodger fans, who averaged 40K per game that year saw much more baseball than the giants fans who averaged 13K per game. Who's worse? the ones who leave early or the ones who don't show up at all? Also, it's not like the Giant fans were staying the whole game either, often, the traffic to the gate in the seventh and eighth innnings was far worse than after the game ended.


Different mold than the east coast rabid fans, sure, but worst fans in america? I hardly think so.

[i]...I hate all dynasties...[/]


Do you also go by the name JOEY?


Get ready to hate my New England Patriots with a passion.

n/t

Maybe if you can explain how they cheat, or if you could make a less ridiculous statement, you'd get some responses.

2d -


Take a pole. Ask various parts of the nation, as espn.com has done on many occassions. People see the LA fanbase, and I especially see the Lakers fans as the worst in the country.


I live in L.A. If you do too, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about those dang flags coming down off of cars last year after one lousy win. I'm talking about this blind faith in "Lakers can do no wrong, and if Shaq goes over the back for a rebound, it's a foul on the other guy" philosophy.


I like your arguments though...very clever. You maintain that dodgers fans see maybe 50% more baseball in a year than oakland fans. True. They also have a 10x or more larger fanbase. Nice job at distorting the facts. Also, the Dodgers have long had the cheapest tickets in baseball, because their organization knows that 40k fans at $10 apeice is better than 20k fans at $20 apiece. Kudos to them.


But they need to have good marketing, since they have the worst fans in America.


Josh

The NFL does not have the best system right now b.c of the free-agency problems they have... Every year, teams release guys who are "under contract".. Nobody knows what the hell is going on..


Baseball is worst major league sport right now, and likely will go bankrupt


Hockey has a good CBA, but without the salary cap there is still too much disparity..


NFL needs to kill these contracts that have obscene signing bonuses and re-instill some team loyalty.. Altough it is possible that many football fans do not care who is wearing their uniform from year to year..


NBA has it done right.. Cap, right balance of loyalty and free-agency, and competitive games.. It's not the leagues fault the best 5 teams play in the West..

I'm actually more disgusted about the Giants fans than I am about the Dodgers fans. It's rough being a Dodger fan here in the Bay area. Everyone talks a big game, but, when it comes time to show up at the ballpark, they all have a wine tasting or art gallery extravaganza to go to instead.

Pac Bell Park changed things a little, on the surface, for a couple of years, because it was new and the "hot ticket". real baseball fans (I'd go to games just because they're top quality ballgames) were priced out of the seats as the rich people figured out that Giants games were the thing to do. Now, with their team in contention, Giants fans can't be bothered to fill a gorgeous ball park.

Also, those things that Dodger fans were being accused of for years are being perpetrated by giants' fans. showing up late, leaving early, talking on cell phones as they munch on sushi at games.

I've never been to any ball game outside of LA or the Bay Area, but I have to say that the BA fans are hands down more repugnant to me as a fan of the game.

As a lifelong Lakers/Dodgers/Rams fan, I feel compelled to speak up...


Perhaps I will piss some people off by saying this, but I believe that the reason behind most of the hatred of LA sports teams is simply jealousy.


Nobody loves a frontrunner. Nobody loves Shaq, because he's the best player in the game. Nobody loves the big-market advantages that LA teams have.


The louder a person gets in declaring their hatred for the Lakers or anything else in LA, the more I think the problem really comes from inside themselves...

I could not possibly disagree more. Dynasties have always been, and always will be, great for sports.


The NFL is trying very hard to ruin what they have. Having grown up in LA rooting for the Rams, I continue to harbor a deep, bitter hatred of the 49ers and everyone and everything that is in any way associated with the team. I got a lot of pleasure/misery out of this hatred in my life, but now I think, why bother? Why hate any team? Even if they're the best this year, next year they probably won't be. It's extremely unusual for a team to hold it together for even 3 years, as the Rams have been able to do thus far.


St. Louis, then Baltimore, then New England...what's next? Cleveland? Tampa Bay? Buffalo? Who can say? Every year it changes. I hate it.


The NBA has by far the best system, in my opinion. A "soft" salary cap, restraining spending while allowing enough flexibility for teams to be able to keep their rosters intact for a period of years...leading to the Lakers and Celtics of the 80's, the Bulls of the 90's, and now the Lakers of the 00's.

"The NFL is trying very hard to ruin what they have"


That's foolish. "What they have" is a direct result of the hard cap and competitive balance. TV ratings continue to reset all time highs each year, and attendance is high in every city. It's the model of a successful and well balanced modern sports league. Due to their revenue streams, its also the easiest league to implement a true revenue sharing system that works, but that doesn't take away from the accomplishment.


Whats wrong with new blood? Thats what makes the league exciting across the country. Fans across the league believe their teams have a chance, and the numbers show that is a good thing.

2d -


It is quite possible that you are correct about Giants fans and their less-than-enthusiastic attitude towards the G-men. However, as you note, ticket prices have discouraged many of the blue-collar fans (the best fans) from being seen.


I grew up in Seattle, then went to college down in Hell-A. Many of my best friends were from the Bay Area, and we are all sports fans. We often went to dodgers games. One friend in particular who was a huge Giants and A's fan (both...I'm not sure how he did it), was appalled at the fans in Dodgers Stadium. He'd go, all decked out in Giants gear, and not receive any guff. He would say that a Dodgers fan dressed and acting the same in 3-Com park would be admonished, and would not return.


No idea if this is true or not, but it does provide an interesting perspective on how sincere many of the fans are.


Josh

Josh,

I admit that the LA sports fans are not what you'd use as a model if you were designing them, but at least they show up. In the days of the stick/3com, you couldn't even get giants fans to show up. I used to walk up to day games (working nights at the time) and get primo seats for some good day baseball. Once, the dodgers were in town and there were all of 6K people on a gorgeous sunny afternoon. Don't tell me that it's a work day, since they can sell out Pac Bell for day games now.


Actually, the LA fans kind of disgust me, but not any more than the Bay area fans. You have all of the elements here that LA fans get bashed for (leave early, show up late, don't know the game, etc), with the added pleasure of the thug element. fist fights with people wearing other team's jerseys is a little beyond the call of duty.


I'll leave you with a giants fan story.

the guy in the story was a card shop owner which may have added to his ignorance, but he was a huge giants fan, so I'll lay blame equally, and say that both demographics are idiots.

I walked into a card shop a few years ago and was checking out the merchandise. I was looking for some older cards for my dad, I think, when the owner started a conversation.

He showed me a Harvey Kuenne Card and went on and on about how great a player he was. Then he laid the capper on: "...and he eventually became the comissioner of Baseball"


Uh, no, That would be Bowie Kuhn, and you're an idiot.


I walked out without saying a word.

You can't be serious.


You said : St. Louis, then Baltimore, then New England...what's next? Cleveland? Tampa Bay? Buffalo? Who can say? Every year it changes. I hate it.


You're saying you preferred it when the NFL championship went:


Niners

Cowboys

Niners

Niners

Cowboys

Cowboys

Niners


???


Dynasties are BORING. The NFL has the best pro sports league (for fans) by far.


I don't dislike LA because they're the Lakers. I root against LA because they've won two championships back to back (the third one being practically in the bag) and it gets very old and unexciting to watch the same team dominate every year.


Another good example is the Olympic Dream Team. One of the worst ideas in the history of sports.


natedogg

nate-web@thegrovers.com

I absolutely preferred it when the 49ers and Cowboys were dominating...it was a great rivalry, like the Lakers and Celtics from the 80's. Always exciting, and the quality of the games was high...unlike today's brand of football.

I believe that what the NFL has is in spite of the hard cap, not because of it. I think there's a limit to what fans will take...it is frustrating not knowing who is on what team from year to year. I will always love football, and I'll never stop watching it, but I hate what they've done to the game.


I believe the best professional league in existence is the NBA...the soft salary cap allows teams in all markets to compete, and the luxury tax keeps most big market teams from exceeding the cap by too much.


I know I'm not going to convince you, but I still believe that the NFL is playing with fire...of course, they'll be helped if baseball ends up going on strike in August (but that's another thread altogether...)

Well just read the thread by Josh W. at the top and all the evidence you will need is there.