Running mediocre and giving away pots

[Vehn]

$15/$30 last weekend. An hour and a half ago I sat down. An hour ago I played my first hand which was pocket queens which were ran down by a backdoor flush which I paid off. I pick up KcTc in early position and open for a raise for my 2nd hand of the night. Guy to my right laughs and says he would fold pocket kings. Loose aggressive LP calls. SB calls. Flop is three tiny rags, I bet and both call. Turn pairs a rag and is checked around. River is nothing of consequence and is checked around again. SB mucks instantly and LP shows KQo and I muck.

Couple hours later there's one limper and I raise in LP with pocket 7s. Loose BB calls. Flop is K Q 8, is checked to me, I bet, and both call. Turn is another Q and is checked around. River is a J, BB bets out and we both fold, and he flashes ATo.

End of the night a tilty, shortstacked player open raises in the cutoff. I make it 3 bets in the small blind with AcKc. OK big blind coldcalls. CO 4-bets, I cap, etc. Flop is T x x no clubs. I bet, BB calls, CO raises, and we both call. Turn is a blank, checked to cutoff who bets all-in, I call, BB raises, I fold. River is a king, BB shows KTo, CO shows AJo and goes home. I suck down the rack I'm stuck and go home too and haven't been back since. Bleh..

[Clarkmeister]

I warned you this was coming, but you didn't want to listen. It can get worse too.

Just ride it out, and when you get back to running "normal" bottle this feeling, remember it and stay humble. Just keep playing your game and you'll be fine.

[MRBAA]

This is from a 4-8 player, so take it with a grain...

On the second hand, pocket 7s, why raise? Sure it might make people think you have big cards, but your destroying the value of your hand, which wants to get in cheap and hit a set. With a pair below everything on the board, and loose and fairly clueless players in the game, I don't think betting the flop in a smallish pot is really likely to win it for you there. And if it doesn't, then what? I think you wasted two small bets here.

On the third hand, you've got a great hand but one that wants lots of callers. Since there is only one player in, why not just smooth call the two bets. You basically want the big blind in, anyway. Once you miss the flop you have a fold against these loose players. I'd say you wasted 3 small bets here.

Sounds like you were playing tight and wanted the players to give your bets and raises way more respect than it was in their nature to do. Getting no cards stinks, but sometimes losing less is just as important as winning more.

[Vehn]

Well I certainly didn't feel like I could keep up 3 bb/hour for the rest of my life, but I was hoping I could at least continue to play well. I feel like I've entered this weird weak tight stage where everything I do is the wrong decision regardless of the results.. but I guess thats why its called running bad, huh. Here's another example from the same session. I pick up two kings UTG and raise. Same guy from the AK hand above cold calls to my immediate left. TOM coldcalls on the button. Fishy in small blind calls. Flop is A 5 4 rainbow, SB checks, I check, UTG bets, button calls, SB calls, I fold. Turn is another 5 and is checked around. I start to feel sick. River is a K, SB checks, UTG bets, button folds, SB calls. UTG shows pocket sixes and the SB mucks. Whee.

I guess there wasn't any point to this other than whining but uhm it made me feel better? Kinda? I'll wade back in tomorrow I guess.

[CrackerZack]

In a weird way, reading davidross's diary makes me feel better since he's been going through tremendous swings. I like the subject of the post...it sounds familiar.

[rtrombone]

You statement that it seems like everything you do is wrong resonated with me.

This is the kind of thing that happens when you're running bad. With every hand, though, you still have a choice.

Some examples from the past couple weeks:


I have J9 in the big blind. Flop is TTQ rainbow. It gets checked around. At the turn it gets checked to the button who bets. I raise. He 3-bets. I call and fold at the river when I miss. He says he had T9.

I have A7s in the big blind. Flop is 689 rainbow. It gets checked to an LP guy, who bets. I call, along with some others. Turn is another 9. I again call at the turn instead of raising. River is a blank. In this hand a check-raise likely would have won the pot, because the LP guy had an 8. A bet may not have, a call certainly wasn't going to, but a check-raise probably would've worked.

I have K3s in the small blind. Flop is 235. I bet, an LP guy raises, I call. Turn is another deuce. I bet, he calls. We both check the blank river and he takes it down with 88.

I have 55 in LP. Flop is AA4. Big blind bets, maniac to my right raises, I 3-bet. Turn is a K. Maniac bets, I fold. Big blind called and they both checked the river. Maniac had K4 offsuit so I was ahead of him at the flop, but big blind had 88 so she was ahead of both of us.

I have 88 in one of the blinds. Flop is J 4 6. I bet, chaser calls. Turn is a 5. I bet, he raises, I call. I check and fold at the river. The way this guy plays, he likely made two pair at the turn.

I have A7s in one of the blinds. Flop is Q7x. I bet, chaser calls. Turn is a blank. I bet, he calls. River is an 8. I check, he bets, I call. He takes it down with 87 offsuit.

I have JJ in the big bilnd. Only one limper to me. I raise. Flop is king-high. I bet, he calls. Turn is a 5. Long story short, he had 55 and turned a set.

Last hand of the night. I have A9s in MP/LP. Flop is K9x. This time I decide to check the flop and it gets checked around. Turn is a 5. Loose guy to my right bets. I raise. He 3-bets and puts me all in. He has 55 for the turned set.


As you can see from these hands, I tend to bet second pair and middle pair with an overcard kicker. When I flopped a straight draw, I played it passively once and aggressively once. The point of this post is that when all was said and done, I didn't feel as bad about those hands I played aggressively as those hands I played passively. Sure, maybe my check-raise with the straight draw wouldn't have worked and I'd have lost more. Maybe if I'd have bet my A9s the guy with 55 would have still called me thinking it was a position bet and because I'd been running bad all night. Still, these are the two hands I regret. If your decision is going to be wrong no matter what, let that decision be a bet/raise, I say.

Take it from someone who's an expert at running bad. If you're going to go down, it's better to go down swinging. In general, I feel it's hard to play too tight pre-flop and too aggressively post-flop.

You'll get more action this way, too, when you start hitting.

I would've bet your pocket kings at the flop.

[Dynasty]

I warned you this was coming, but you didn't want to listen. It can get worse too.

I think I understand vehn's post in the Psychology forum a while ago better.

Let me guess. vehn was running well for an extended period of time and started feeling unbeatable. I can almost hear him say "I know all about standard deviation but I'm so much better than those chumps I play with, I can probably win non-stop in that game. Seriously, they're atrocious. It's so easy to beat them. Don't tell me about swings. You don't understand how easy this game I play in is. You don't know what you're talking about here."

Then, the cold slap of reality strikes you in the face. Well, not really. vehn doesn't appear to have gone into a prolonged losing streak- just a mediocre breaking even streak.

vehn, I hope you don't still think the losing streak can't come.

[DaBartman]

Everyone knows you're running not so hot. They are not afraid of you. KTs early, should have been mucked even if you're running good. The cap with AKs is not wise out of position especially when your demeanor says I'm already beat. I could feel it 2000mi away, I'm sure your opponets could also. The raise with the 7's was OK, but wouldn't it have been just as profitable to let the blinds in, get better odds and try to flop a set? Easier to get away from also.

[Ed Miller]

vehn plays more aggressively preflop than you or I do. I noticed this when we played together at the Mirage. I think it's fine.

KTs early, should have been mucked even if you're running good.

KTs is one of my swing hands... depending on the game, I play it or muck it from UTG.

The cap with AKs is not wise out of position especially when your demeanor says I'm already beat.

Again, I think it was fine. When a tilty, almost allin player is the one who 4-bets me and there is another sucker along for the ride, I'd probably 5-bet there.

The raise with the 7's was OK, but wouldn't it have been just as profitable to let the blinds in, get better odds and try to flop a set?

Again, I disagree. I'd raise with 77 there much of the time as well.

In other words, I don't really agree with you.

[rigoletto]

depending on the game, I play it or muck it from UTG.

Any other choice would be pretty unconventional /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[bernie]

im sure vehn would say your just jealous...

oh, that's right. that's what he said to me when i told someone a great run will end and a bad swing will come around and be ready for it.

anyways, hang in there vehn, it 'can' get much worse. this is only 1 session. wait til you get about a week or 2 str8 of this crap. THEN youll really be questioning your play.

but it does feel better to get it out, doesnt it? i know it did for me on my first tour of hell.

good luck

b

[Vehn]

Ironically I went back and looked on statking and I've actually been running at a little over +1 small bet per hour in this period.. guess its better than I thought, even though I still feel like I've been playing like [censored]. One big fat loss at $30/$60 will do it to you I guess. I'll quit whining now.

[ACBob]

Oww!