QQ in the BB early on

[mrkilla]

Hello All , I very rarely post a hand (here or else where) however I am curious of the play here..

Live B+M tournamnet (540 Buy in Seneca Niagara up in Niagara Falls)

Rounds are 1/2 hour each
Levels started at 25/25
We Start with 3k in Chips

My Image is Aggressive



Table, Is fairly weak/tight - Loose/passive. Most people will "play ball" (IE Folding to my agression etc) . The Villan here is weak/tightie


I'm in seat 3 Villan is Seat 9

Chip Stacks (of relivance)
Villan = 5800 ~
Hero = 4500 ~


Round 3 50/75 Hold'em (10 max, 10 handed)


Preflop: I am BB with Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q. /images/graemlins/club.gif
6 folds, Villan calls, 2 Fold, SB calls, Hero Raises 200 (total 275), villan Calls, SB Folds.

Ok heres me Read so far, he kind of started to squirm like he didn't like it but was tired of me "buying pots" . My General feeling here was a Big/Suited Middle Ace, or middle pair

Flop: (Pot 625) 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero Bets 600, Villan Calls

My read: he again didnt look "thrillied" to call but

Turn: (Pot 1825) 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero Bets 1200, Villan Raises All- In

Read: he thought about it for about 45 seconds says "whats the bet" and says " Ok I go all in then"


What hand's do we put Villan on now? Can we Fold here? Should we fold here? I'm curious to your play vs the read I've give as much as the "book" play here.

[schwza]

you've already put in half your stack. i don't see how you can fold here. you're going to see 8x / 99-JJ at least as often as 6x/KK+/57/88, so with the pot odds i think it's a pretty clear call.

i wouldn't have minded a check on the turn to try to sqeeze value from a hand like 8x on the river, but this is fine too, as long as you call.

[suckbot]

ok, I'll bite.

Not really knowing anything about the situation other than that you said he's weak/tight, that makes me nervous.

Could be he put you on high cards and decided to make a stand here. But the whole "squirm like he doesn't like it" sounds like bad acting to me. Weak means strong perhaps? Dunno, but if he is as tight as you say, I really wonder if he'd push with nothing.

Here's what I think happened. He played suited connectors.. 5-6, 6-7 something like that. Because of your aggressive style, he knew that you could be opening with anything and he'd have position. So he calls.

Flop hits him hard. You bet as expected, he calls. Why not raise? he knows that you'll fire again so why scare you? turn comes, you to bet, he figures that's enough risk on being outdrawn and raises all in.

Here's my logic. if he is weak, then I would expect a push early with a decent pair. 99, 1010,JJ are all good enough for a weak player to push IMO. Really doubt he'd bluff with missed AK or something (which also might have been worth a re-raise pre-flop)

that's my guess and yes I know I'm giving this guy some credit he may not deserve. You actually see this guy's hand?

[schwza]

but you also need villain to win the hand ~3x as often as hero does for hero to want to fold given all the money in th pot.

[mrkilla]

Ill post the result after a few more comments or an hour or so whatever comes first /images/graemlins/smile.gif

If he is weak tight like you say....I would put him on a range of hands from 2-2 to J-J, suited A-low, suited connector.
From the way he played his hand, I would say A-6, A-8, maybe pocket 4's, or even suited 5-7 are the most likely. The all-in raise would worry me here since I would be drawing dead to a Q if he had trips, and would be drawing dead if he had a straight. I know there is a lot of money in the pot but I would lean to folding since you would still have over 2k in chips left and the blinds are still relatively small since if he actually does have a made hand then you are out of the tourney.

I think you need to raise more pre-flop. Two players have limped for 75, and you make it 275? I think I'd go to 350-400, or about 5x the BB. You've got an aggressive reputation, which means you may not scare them, and you're going to have to play out of position if you do get called, so it isn't the end of the world if you just take it down now.

With that raise, your turn decision would have been easier. But I still think you have to call.

[Masquerade]

I think he believes he has the best hand. However he could believe that with 99-JJ and play like this so I think you call. He might also have 77 and now have the gutshot.

half of my chips are in the pot and it is very possible that i have the best hand, i call.

think villain ended up having 88, (maybe 44).

[mrkilla]

Yes i did see the guys Hand

I called pretty quickly actually (after I calculated what I put in the pot, whats in there,rest of the odds etc) and the assumption my hand was good a decent amount of the time

He Showed 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for Flopped Quads...

Yea the results ,were..disgusting?...but the question was more or less should this call be an ultra easy insta call or should I have sat back and thought it over and perhaps ditched or slowed on the turn.

[suckbot]

[ QUOTE ]

He Showed 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for Flopped Quads...


[/ QUOTE ]

Oish. That'll leave a mark. Well, I was right he had a 6 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

In the end, I don'think there was much you could have done about it. raise more and you don't get any action on your QQ, raise what you did and occasionally someone will flop a monster.

[mrkilla]

Yea , thats where I was curious, Every one said "Nothing you can do" But I wasn;t so sure there was "nothing"

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello All , I very rarely post a hand (here or else where) however I am curious of the play here..

Live B+M tournamnet (540 Buy in Seneca Niagara up in Niagara Falls)

Rounds are 1/2 hour each
Levels started at 25/25
We Start with 3k in Chips

My Image is Aggressive



Table, Is fairly weak/tight - Loose/passive. Most people will "play ball" (IE Folding to my agression etc) . The Villan here is weak/tightie


I'm in seat 3 Villan is Seat 9

Chip Stacks (of relivance)
Villan = 5800 ~
Hero = 4500 ~


Round 3 50/75 Hold'em (10 max, 10 handed)


Preflop: I am BB with Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q. /images/graemlins/club.gif
6 folds, Villan calls, 2 Fold, SB calls, Hero Raises 200 (total 275), villan Calls, SB Folds.

Ok heres me Read so far, he kind of started to squirm like he didn't like it but was tired of me "buying pots" . My General feeling here was a Big/Suited Middle Ace, or middle pair

Flop: (Pot 625) 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif, 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero Bets 600, Villan Calls

My read: he again didnt look "thrillied" to call but

Turn: (Pot 1825) 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero Bets 1200, Villan Raises All- In

Read: he thought about it for about 45 seconds says "whats the bet" and says " Ok I go all in then"


What hand's do we put Villan on now? Can we Fold here? Should we fold here? I'm curious to your play vs the read I've give as much as the "book" play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy call. If he made trips so be it, but it's unlikeyl, as is AA/KK. Unless he's putting on a total acting job, everything he's saying/doing says you have him beat.

You're also way committted to fold.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes i did see the guys Hand

I called pretty quickly actually (after I calculated what I put in the pot, whats in there,rest of the odds etc) and the assumption my hand was good a decent amount of the time

He Showed 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif for Flopped Quads...

Yea the results ,were..disgusting?...but the question was more or less should this call be an ultra easy insta call or should I have sat back and thought it over and perhaps ditched or slowed on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the only thing worse than not calling the all in would be to show what you fold. Why dont you just hang a sign on your head that says "I'll fold overpairs heads up really easy on non scary boards, so go ahead and bluff me".

You got unlucky, it happens.

[GreywolfNYC]

If the villain here is as "weak-tight" as you say he is, you're dead in the water. There is no way that he's pushing without 1) trips (unlikely), a boat (very likely), or quads (less likely). Rob, I haven't read the results yet but I think you've got to find a way to lay this one down.

It's a big laydown but it can be made, I think, especially as your intial read was middle pair. I've laid down aces full to quads once (the opponent was kind enough to show me) but that was in a cash game and the betting pattern was a lot easier to read. (I bet increasingly heavily through the streets and he went ott all in on the river). Here it's very difficult because he could easily have 99 or similar and know that you've missed. But...if this were a bluff or semi-bluff he'd have to be a fish because he's got to think you'll call.
The hardest thing about laying down is not knowing for sure whether you've made the right move.