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12-12-2005, 11:51 AM
20/40 Borgata

utg has just come over from the must-move table and immediately raises

folded to mp2, who is tilting quite badly and getting shortstacked (lost 3 pots in a row and on the last 2 got caught overplaying a baby flush and betting an underpair to the board), who immediately 3 bets

all fold to me, in the big blind, and i look down and see AsJs and call; utg calls

flop comes Ah Ks 7d

i check, utg bets, mp2 raises, i reraise, utg calls, mp2 caps, i/utg both call

turn is 6s (Ah Ks 7d)

I check, utg checks, mp2 bets, I raise, utg reraises, mp2 caps, I/utg call

river is Jc (Ah Ks 7d 6s)

I check, utg bets, mp2 raises all in for $25 more, I call and utg reraises, I call

thoughts on all streets appreciated

DrSavage
12-12-2005, 12:03 PM
You got the action wrong, you called two cold on the flop and I (utg) made it 3, you both called.
On the turn, you checked, i bet, mp raised, you called two cold, i made it 3, mp made it 4 and you called two more.

Mempho
12-12-2005, 12:04 PM
Wow, what a hand. I don't think you can lay this down, but [censored].

12-12-2005, 12:07 PM
my apologies - if that's correct, then mp2 capped the flop and I called

danzasmack
12-12-2005, 12:17 PM
If UTG just sat down I think it is safe to assume he does not know the other player is tilting. In that case I think you have to lay this down on the turn.

I might check/3 bet the flop to get the most information out of UTG. If he caps I maybe peel for the turn but it looks like you lost to KK.

DrSavage
12-12-2005, 12:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If UTG just sat down I think it is safe to assume he does not know the other player is tilting. In that case I think you have to lay this down on the turn.

I might check/3 bet the flop to get the most information out of UTG. If he caps I maybe peel for the turn but it looks like you lost to KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

He picked up a flush draw on turn, I don't think he can fold there. Fold on the river is very safe though for the reason you said - I just sat down and have no idea if MP is tilting or not.

Mempho
12-12-2005, 12:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If UTG just sat down I think it is safe to assume he does not know the other player is tilting. In that case I think you have to lay this down on the turn.



[/ QUOTE ]

Even with the spade draw?

danzasmack
12-12-2005, 12:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If UTG just sat down I think it is safe to assume he does not know the other player is tilting. In that case I think you have to lay this down on the turn.

I might check/3 bet the flop to get the most information out of UTG. If he caps I maybe peel for the turn but it looks like you lost to KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

He picked up a flush draw on turn, I don't think he can fold there. Fold on the river is very safe though for the reason you said - I just sat down and have no idea if MP is tilting or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops!

Yeah, definatly fold this river.

barry.egan
12-12-2005, 01:05 PM
With so much confusion as to who actually did the betting and raising the correct play could be almost anything. But, if you're going to check the flop I think it's a 3-bet or fold situation. Either way your stuck once the spade hits on the turn.

The river reraise into a dry side-pot should send off alarm bells. But, in all honesty, with a non-spade river you should not have put one more chip in the pot.

JohnnyHumongous
12-12-2005, 01:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]


The river reraise into a dry side-pot should send off alarm bells. But, in all honesty, with a non-spade river you should not have put one more chip in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will say that in general you have to discount aggression significantly when the pot is protected on the river. You'll see guys try to push you out with the idea that they have the all-in beat but maybe you're ahead somehow and investing in aggression on the river could pay off with a huge scoop. Not necessarily in this particular hand, but in general.

12-12-2005, 03:46 PM
I don't very much mind calling the three bet, as MP2's raise could mean anything and you are probably calling with AJ from late position anyway.

As for the flop, I don't mind the 3-bet as long as you keep in mind that: a. early position player probably doesn't know mp2 is tilting; b. that you probably want to slow down on the turn depending on how early position player reacts to your 3-bet. In other words, unless early pos. player folds or takes a hell of a long time to make a call, your hand range for him could be narrowed down to AK-AQ, KK-JJ, most hands that are ahead of you for the moment. If player knows that you know that MP2 is on tilt, this is a different story. But, I don't think you have that much info to work with.

You're re-raise on the turn is ill-advised. I'm folding at this point. Even if UTG knows that MP2 is on tilt, his re-raise after you called MP2 is basically saying "I know you are committed and I have you beat, so I'll let MP2 do the betting for me and then I'll get in another bet." He doesn't want to scare off MP2, who may say "[censored] IT" and go have a beer. He doesn't want to scare you off by betting out. Yeah, now is the time to fold.

You save yourself one bet on the turn and as many as two on the river by folding now. Time to cut your losses.

All things considered, I don't think you can get away from this hand on the river. I'd probably call here, wince, and then silently curse out Mr. tilter, who made this hand so much more expensive than it should have been.

Argun

Riverman
12-12-2005, 03:47 PM
Wow this is really bad. You put in WAY too much money. Your flop play is fine, but I am dumping this on the turn. There is absolutely no way you are ahead on the river if UTG is even somewhat reasonable.

Entity
12-12-2005, 03:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wow this is really bad. You put in WAY too much money. Your flop play is fine, but I am dumping this on the turn. There is absolutely no way you are ahead on the river if UTG is even somewhat reasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't dump TP+nutFD on the turn.

Rob

12-12-2005, 04:41 PM
DOH, MY BAD! Didnt see he had nut flush draw. Yikes. Sorry, hate wasting post space. Wow. Just call the turn, call re-raise. Probably can't get away from this on the river either.

Riverman
12-12-2005, 05:06 PM
Didnt see the flush draw, sorry. Obv. he has to see the river, but a fold is in order even with the 2 pair.