Trouble with Axs

[DoomSlice]

Some table background: table has been playing super loose and super passive preflop, so I fully expected to a flop 5-6 handed with no raise.

The preflop raiser in the hand has only been raising occasionally, and when he does he usually shows down two high cards. I've seen him limp QQ, KK, and AA so I don't expect to ever see those here. However, when he raises preflop he will fire a bet on the flop 95% of the time, so I was positive that I could nail him with a check-raise and trap mega-fish if he called.

Other Villain in the hand is a mega-fish (will call with top pair no kicker, mid/low pair A kicker, any flush draw, any straight draw, etc...)

PP PL 100 full ring

Relevent stacks:
Hero is MP1 ($130)
Villain1 is MP3 ($151)
Villain2 is SB ($95)

Hero has A /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Preflop:
1 fold, UTG+1 limps, 1 fold, Hero limps, MP2 limps, Villain1 raises to $4, folds, Villain2 calls $3, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $3, MP2 folds

Flop ($14): 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Villain2 checks, Hero checks, Villain1 bets $6, Villain2 calls $6, Hero raises to $25, Villain1 folds, Villain2 calls $19

Turn($70): A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
(Villain has about 65 behind)
SB checks, Hero bets $40, SB calls $40

River($150): 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB is all in for ~25
Hero pukes

Thoughts?

[stealyourface]

looks like 910, but a fold is nearly impossible here with the odds your getting. call.

Also i don't like the flop check raise, I would much rather bet out. You are bloating the pot out of position with top pair on a low board. Rest of the hand is standard.

Don't play weak suited Aces OOP.

[DoomSlice]

If I bet out and Villain1 raises, I will have to fold when there's a good chance I still have the best hand.

The purpose of the check-raise was not to build a pot, but to take it down right there with the extra money that I KNEW Villain1 was going to put in the pot.

[DoomSlice]

Canned responses are not very helpful. I described the table conditions which made my decision to play A8s easy, since not only is the table loose and passive, but there are also fish that WILL pay off if I hit. Obviously if I spiked an Ace on the flop I was not going to continue with it.

[2PAUL2]

the pf limp is fine but i dont like the the call of the raise.

flop play is ok but i would rather lead or check call, lead the turn - not many draws out there.

on the turn just put him in, you probably have the best hand an the last 25 is going in on the river anyway.

paul

[beeyjay]

villain 1 doesn't sound like the type to raise you with air here if u bet out especially with villain 2 behind him. This makes betting out seem all the more attractive to me so that I can get away cheaply if he pops this up.

Whereas when you check and he bets, as you expected him to do, you really haven't defined his hand at all. You know hes going to bet all the time in this spot. Now when you checkraise and he shows a ton more interest, you're playing a big pot out of position with a weak hand.

[Mercman572]

If the table is likely to just call down, I'm betting 2/3 on this flop and full pot on the turn. I don't like checkraising with a pair of 8s against calling stations since, well they call. Pot gets unnecessarily huge, and mid pairs don't stand up very often multiway with calling stations.

As you played it though I see no reason not to pot the turn.

[djoyce003]

If villain only has $65 you gotta put him in on the turn....if this guy rivered a straight this guy is an uber donkey and if you buddy list him you'll get it back with interest, plus this becomes a poorly disguised bad beat post.

Put him in on the turn with Top two.

[wdeadwyler]

Personally, I like the c/r, but If i get called and get no help on turn, I am done with betting. I think a c/r lets us know if we are best here. Alternatively you can c/c and bet 3/4 pot on turn, but c/r is nice here too. As played just put him all in on the turn.

[Mercman572]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I like the c/r, but If i get called and get no help on turn, I am done with betting. I think a c/r lets us know if we are best here.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can it tell you that? OP said they;ll call down with most hands.

[ QUOTE ]
I described the table conditions which made my decision to play A8s easy, since not only is the table loose and passive, but there are also fish that WILL pay off if I hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your reasoning for playing the hand in the first place. However, I disagree that A8s is a good hand to play in this situation. Especially after the PF raise. It seems like your just going along with the loose/passive PF play at the table when you should be playing a more TAG style than your opponents. Unless you hit the flop very hard (A8X, 88X, XXXs, AA8) you'll never know where you stand. Also, even you flop the nut flush draw it is unlikely that a semi-bluff will win you the pot so that equity is gone. At an LP table, I like limping with GOOD drawing hands like medium-high suited connectors, suited one-gappers and small pairs.

[DoomSlice]

The mistake was definately the turn, and as most of you said I should have just pushed (but when I caught top 2 I figured I could just milk him all the way down). If I don't push, he is folding his last $25 after a missed draw and I am missing out on all of that value, and if he calls 2/3 pot he is probably calling a push.

[DoomSlice]

Let's just say I was 100% sure I had Villain2 beaten. I was trying to narrow down V1's range here and hopefully get a fold from him. Unlike V2, V1 is not a donk.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I like the c/r, but If i get called and get no help on turn, I am done with betting. I think a c/r lets us know if we are best here.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can it tell you that? OP said they;ll call down with most hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

These types of opponents will gladly call every lead I make, but when I check raise, it jostles them and lets them know I am in teh hand and I mean business. Usually it gets these types to fold unless they really like their hand.