How bad was this play?

[aggie]

No Reads

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (3 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

SB ($33.60)
Hero ($329.45)
Button ($204.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Button calls $2, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, Button calls $8, SB folds.

Flop: ($22) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $20</font>, Button calls $20.

Turn: ($62) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $64</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $299.45</font>, Button calls $110.35 (All-In).

River: ($535.80) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $535.80

[Garland]

You do realize this is an extremely draw-heavy board, right? I don't like giving free cards.

FWIW, I would only attempt this check-raise if villain was very aggressive and guaranteed to bet any draw or any pair. Most villains will check behind most hands you beat (Kx being the possible exception).

I guess another time is if villain is apt to call with nothing on the flop and try to take it away from you on the turn. But this is rarely the case at these limits.

Hope he didn't show you 89o.

Garland

P.S. I voted for bad play only because the worst play ever would be to open fold your hand on the turn /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[BobboFitos]

i voted for "id play it like this"

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I would only attempt this check-raise if villain was very aggressive and guaranteed to bet any draw or any pair. Most villains will check behind most hands you beat (Kx being the possible exception).


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very key stipulation

[Bukem_]

[ QUOTE ]
i voted for "id play it like this"

[/ QUOTE ]

So did I.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
i voted for "id play it like this"

[/ QUOTE ]

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
You do realize this is an extremely draw-heavy board, right? I don't like giving free cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like leaving myself with half of a pot bet left on the river with TPTK on drawy boards where I have no idea where I'm at.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like leaving myself with half of a pot bet left on the river with TPTK on drawy boards where I have no idea where I'm at.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-handed on a raised pot, TPTK is a monster. The way hero played it, he knew was going with it. If villain has a better hand with 100xbb, then so be it he's most likely going to double villain up. No need to help villain out by potentially letting him catch up on the river.

Garland

[soah]

So the river is a queen, jack, ten, nine, or diamond, and you just happily push in another $110 while he folds all the hands that missed? Or you check and call against all the hands that hit and let him check behind with the rest?

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
So the river is a queen, jack, ten, nine, or diamond, and you just happily push in another $110 while he folds all the hands that missed? Or you check and call against all the hands that hit and let him check behind with the rest?

[/ QUOTE ]

I still like my hand on the turn. If hero bets pot here, it should be $186 in the pot with $112 left to go for villain. I would pay him off if he hit. Do whatever's necessary to prevent yourself from being bluffed out on the river if that's a worry. Overbet the pot on the turn by betting $70ish. Makes the river a commitment thing if it wasn't obvious already.

Garland

[soah]

That's the problem... once you bet the turn you are committed, but your opponent isn't.

[Garland]

To be playing TPTK in a raised pot 3-handed anything but hard would be playing scared poker. Scared poker is bad poker. I can hardly fathom checking the turn in his situation.

Garland

[soah]

Checking the turn lets you get it all in right there instead of waiting for the river.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
Checking the turn lets you get it all in right there instead of waiting for the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

And with no reads, just exactly how did you know that villain was going to bet?

Garland

[soah]

Because people almost always bet in that spot. The hands most likely to check there are the marginal hands that have few outs against us and don't want to get all-in, so we're rarely losing much if they check behind. In some cases it will get more value out of them if they weren't willing to call the turn.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
Because people almost always bet in that spot. The hands most likely to check there are the marginal hands that have few outs against us and don't want to get all-in, so we're rarely losing much if they check behind. In some cases it will get more value out of them if they weren't willing to call the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really need to get out and play 6-handed and short-handed more if this is true. From my admittedly limited experience I've been building up playing 6-max, I haven't found the auto-bet by villain in position on the turn if checked to to be true at the NL200 level.

Garland

[flawless_victory]

-garland
soah is right and u are wrong.
im sry.

[deadmoney98]

I like playing top pair this way in general, but there is something fishy about villains bet on the turn. In my experience a pot sized turn bet (or slight overbet) is usually the goods. Of course, then you have to determine if villain thinks KQ is the goods here. There are worse things than going broke with TPTK 3 handed though.

[wdeadwyler]

Why wouldnt villain check behind with QJ, QJs, J9s, or any of the other draws that have nothing at the moment and a free card offered to them? I would see villain betting KJ+, 89, and a set here, and maybe 10A, though we can assume a set would raise the flop right?

That leaves us with villains betting the turn with about 5hands we beat, and checking behind all of those that we are ahead of but are quite live against us.

If villain is an aggro donkey I like OP's line fine, but against an unknown dont you think we are asking for trouble checking here?