River disaster

[jon_1van]

Here is an example of where aggression is good. Always fire that last barrel. ESPICALLY IN A TOURNEY. In a tourney there are often pots that get way out of control. For instance, you start trying to bluff out someone, then you get committed because the pot is sooo huge. You CANNOT come off the gas when the pot is big in tourneys.

Tournament - 7 Card Stud High-Low - Level VIII (300/600), Ante 50, Bring-In 100 (converter (http://j.1asphost.com/greenage))

Seat 2: 7,546
Hero: 12,392
Seat 4: 1,615
Seat 7: 3,355
Seat 8: 5,092

3rd Street - (0.83 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Hero: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif___brings-in___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___raises

4th Street - (3.83 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Hero: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets

5th Street - (2.92 BB)

Hero: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets

6th Street - (4.92 BB)

Hero: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets

River - (6.92 BB)

Hero: 2/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif xx___checks___folds

Total pot: (6.92 BB)


Play to get the big stack. It is sooo hard to survive in limit poker when you limit yourself to "preimum" hands. Play some crap, its fun

[beta1607]

you need to tell us who the villan is here so the public mocking can begin /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Andy B]

Third is an easy fold. Fourth is an easy fold. Fifth is an easy fold. Sixth is an easy fold. Nice hand.

[jon_1van]

I'm not sure about 4th street being an easy fold.

a 4 is dead. So I don't have to worry about trips too much. I have a bunch of outs for high. And if he hits a lowish card I'll have an easy decision. So I think I can play this hand because I'm very confident in my read. Now if he had an 8 up when he called (and thus more likely a high hand) calling is a whole lot worse.

[Backstabr]

[ QUOTE ]
Play to get the big stack. It is sooo hard to survive in limit poker when you limit yourself to "preimum" hands. Play some crap, its fun

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally right. Your play was excellent throughout. Not sure I would or could make this play, but perhaps that's why you bested me.

[benwood]

3rd:I fold.
4th:I fold.
5th:I fold.
6th:I fold.
River:Nice bluff.

[Backstabr]

I was seat 2 here and folded (56), no hearts. I called rather than raised on 3rd in the hope that Jon would come along.

My thinking was that given the action on 3rd, trips were possible and with jon catching the ace, I hated my hand and didn't want to commit to playing what might very well be big pot with myself trapped.

In retrospect, my hand looks very scary and I wasn't thinking hard enough about my oppenents ranges. I don't generally don't think enough about my board and the hand I'm representing.

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
Third is an easy fold. Fourth is an easy fold. Fifth is an easy fold. Sixth is an easy fold. Nice hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I /images/graemlins/heart.gif Andy B

[Andy B]

This makes me a little nervous.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[blumpkin22]

Just be glad you live so far away.

[Andy B]

You're behind. Yes, you probably have outs, but really not very many. It's not like the other guy can't have trips, is it? That tournament was pretty tight throughout. I know I'd be raising with split Fours and a low kicker in that spot. You have almost no shot at low. The other guy has seen you call a raise and then catch an Ace, and yet he bets into you. I don't think he's going to be moved off of his hand easily, and I'm more than a little surprised that your river bluff worked.

So you agree that third, fifth, and sixth are easy folds? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

What's your point? Bad play sometimes works in tourneys, of course it does, and especially late in them. Next topic...

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
The other guy has seen you call a raise and then catch an Ace, and yet he bets into you

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the most automatic of autobets. It yields no information about the hand.


Sixth is a clear call if I assume he has a busted low.

[jon_1van]

This hand is not supposed to be held up to a high standard of "look my play is awesome"

I am merely pointing out that I think tourney play should be VERY different from ring play.

Look at the hand greenage posted. In ring I don't steal, and greenage wouldn't call a raise. Yet because of the setting odd plays start to happen more frequently. And many standard ring game assumptions break down. For instance, the 4 is more likely to raise this hand as a steal.....because people are "tighter" in tourneys

[Hauser_III]

My question is, what did seat 8 have to begin with? I don't think he's on a straight steal on 3rd, as he's staring at the two biggest stacks on the table. I hate trying to steal against stacks that are so much bigger. If the 4th street bet was a continuation of the straight steal, then he's got big stones, because he's looking at two very good low boards with scoop potential. There's no way he's got stones that big, though, because if he did, I don't think he would have backed off on 7th. The check on 7th is too weak for somebody that would be able to bet a naked pair of 4's into those boards and stacks on 4th.

So, he should have had some kind of a hand. Three babies? If so, why's he betting 5th and 6th? And 4th, for that matter. Small buried pair, with maybe a two-flush? Very possible, but that means he folded two small pair on 7th, which is a very incorrect decision given the size of the pot and the pot odds at that point. Straight draw? Not based on 5th and 6th. Flush draw? Again, not based on 5th and 6th. Large buried pair? Again, not with the fold on 7th. Two paints, say AK in the hole, and a 4 up? That's a horrendous hand, unless it's a 3-flush.

I don't know, the more I type this out, the more I'm starting to agree it was a straight steal, and he just lost his nerve on 7th. Moral: if you're going to steal, stay aggressive.