Help, I'm getting raped online (long)

[orange]

Ok. For the longest time, I always envisioned playing online with my fellow 2+2ers and crushing the game, making a few extra bucks on the side. I played homegames for the longest time (few years), crushing it with ease. Too bad internet poker is far, far different.

Phase past the fantasy- I've been getting raped online. A quick background on my online playing-

My friend played PP a while back, lost his inital deposit, and 2 weeks ago, found $20 back in his account. Me and him both played it, running well, and running the $20 into $440 within the first few days. Wow, I thought I was God. This internet poker stuff is pretty easy, even easier than homegames. We divided the bank and kept track of our wins/losses.

Fastfoward a few days. My friend, not a student of the game, lost some money, then tilted, putting his last $50 on black jack party. He lost it all, leaving me $280, and the rest of the account. Obviously this may cause some problems cashing out, moving money through netteller, so I planned on just playing at party until I can get my own netteller/PP account (I think I told you guys this earlier).

Well, this has not been a breeze. Due to the money situation, I cannot get PT until I get my own netteller. The lack of reads I get, plus a nasty run of cards is killing me.

I'm down to my last $100, having lost quite a few buyins over the past few days. I think I'm both getting hit by the deck and playing poorly.

I plan on talking to my parents regarding internet poker/netteller, etc over break, and hope to get my own account. I plan on (parent willing) depositing $500 into party to get a bonus (or maybe you guys can recommend me something else, I'll post when and if I can start my own [censored]).

This is brutal, and in general, today has been brutal. I've lost 4 buyins today, my most in one day. Moving to the NL10 is tough for now, because I cannot access the funds. So I suppose I am going to stick with party. I have been 2 tabling 10 full, buying in shorter to prevent difficult turn/river decisions, to no avail.

I'm guessing I will be told "take a few days break, etc", but are there any more tidbits of advice you guys can help me with? I'm dieing here.

[EMcWilliams]

Orange,
I too am getting raped online. I started out real hot, built my BR too 1000, went to 50NL, got hurt, and am down to 640ish. I too feel your pain. I would definitely suggest a break, and then if you want send me some of your hands and ill look at them im my PT for you so you have some idea of your stats and can look for leaks. You are an excellent player and know the game very well, but obviously something is not right and I wish to help you get back to the good life. YOu have excellent potential and I want to help you succeed, and maybe all you need is a fresh start and a new look on things, which is what im trying to offer you.
After careful thought, I realized that I need to relearn the game, or even initally learn it, as something is not right. Why all of a sudden was a losing terribly with something I once dominated. Over mid-semister break I have decided to re-learn, and if you wanna do it together, Im offering to go along with you.

PM me if interested.

[Andrew Fletcher]

[deleted]

[jasonHoldEm]

Maybe try Ed Miller's short stack strategy in the NL25 games? While the strategy isn't exactly a goldmine it's a good way to get some expereince and (generally speaking) it's a good way to build your bankroll (albeit slowly). Even with $100 you have enough to play the NL25's using this strategy (it's pretty unlikely you'd go broke with a 20 buy-in short stack bankroll, although don't quote me on that). Until you have an opportunity to fully fund your (own) account it might be your best option.

J

[leehrat]

damn dude the nl $25's on party are a joke. in all seriousness, (and this assumes you are actually pretty good at poker), just get a new credit card, take out a cash advance, make a bunch of money, and pay off the card. that way you can both build your credit and your roll. just make sure to pay off the balance asap, i know what a bitch credit cards can be

[-Skeme-]

Take a break to evaluate your game, not just to sit around doing nothing. Post more hands, use good bankroll management, and do not tilt, etc.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
damn dude the nl $25's on party are a joke. in all seriousness, (and this assumes you are actually pretty good at poker), just get a new credit card, take out a cash advance, make a bunch of money, and pay off the card. that way you can both build your credit and your roll. just make sure to pay off the balance asap, i know what a bitch credit cards can be

[/ QUOTE ]

I have enough money to deposit. It just depends on the approval of the parents. If you guys havent read the original thread, here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3424730&page=0&fpart=1&v c=1) it is. This was posted a while back.

[jsnipes28]

yea online poker is not good for the gpa. high school 3.8
collge: 2.1
that being said. I jsut went on a bad downswing took a week off during thanksgiving and redopisited it. Got my confidence back, concentrated on playing 6max and have been running hot at 25ptbb for 8K hands. You seem to have a good understanding of the game from your posts so i would encourage you to play 6max if you arent already. It is more similar to live games as far as action and loosesness. Concentrate on playing 1-2 tables of 6max and i thik you will be on your way. Whatever you do, don't play scared. If you need any HH reviewed or anything just PM and i would be glad to help out.

[stu-unger]

my advice to u would be this orange. 1)take a few days off, 2)tighten up even more than u already play (it will be more boring, but allow u to pay better attention to reads and get used to the game),3)start playing 6max when u have a proper roll, as these games are lovely.

if u would like, i would be more than happy to review some hh for u. it might help to have an ultra nit review your hands...

[scrapperdog]

I think it might be harder for a live game player to jump into the internet game than just starting at the internet game.
I think the differences between the games are pretty big. On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up. Also you get tons of reads and really get to know how the villians play, not to mention live games are notorious for donks.

I think it is possible to pick up lines that might work well in a home game and much less so on the internet. Just a thought, but you might be better leaving a lot of the things that have worked for you in home games behind, and kind of start fresh.

[Mercman572]

saw this coming from your falling confidence I've noticed in your posts recently. Part of your problem is playing with no reads. 2 tabling you should be able to develop some:
Take notes on any semi-interesting hand you see shown down. I played ABC on paradise with no PT a while ago 3 tabling full and I played better due to the detailed notes I felt I was forced to make.

If you still can't get reads reduce to one table.

The biggest part of the learning curve for you will be that you have to become accustomed to all the different styles of play online vs the probably limited stuff you've seen in your home games.

I've looked at some of your posts, you've gotten into some crappy spots but didn't look like too much you can do.

For now, pass up marginal EV situations. Play weaktight, you are on a very limited role. Now is NOT the time to be taking coinflips or playing draws super aggressively. Variance can eat away short roles.

I would cash it out and wait until you have everything set up the way you want before playing again. Get pokertracker, get Neteller set up, get GT+, and then start from there. I like playing when there is nothing else to worry about.

Once you get everything set up, definitely start out on Party with a 500 deposit and claim their bonus. At the lowest stakes, bonus whoring is essential because it gives the biggest percentage increase to your hourly rate. Someone with an $8-10 hourly rate can practically double their hourly rate with bonus whoring at NL 25. Also, definitely play 6 max. The fact that you post at this site and have demonstrated that you have a thorough understanding of the game assures me that you will have no problem beating NL 25 6 max. Players make far too many mistakes for you not to make money.

I would recommend buying in short for your first 500 hands or so. It gets you use to seeing certain situations and doesn't really give you an opportunity to make a costly mistake. You will learn that anytime you have top pair beat at NL 25 and your opponent has top pair, you will get it all in as the favorite. I would recommend playing 1 table for your first 500-1000 hands also. I just think its good for hand reading, and getting used to online in general.

I'm also a college freshman and my parents had reservations about me playing poker in college, but its not a big deal. If I didn't play poker, I would just find some other way to waste my time. Early in the semester, I wasn't doing great in school, so I took a week off of poker. I spent the exact same amount of time on my homework. Instead of playing poker, I played Halo, or watched Sportscenter. I ended up doing alot better in school and learned my performance in school was independent of poker. The reason I wasn't doing that great was probably that it takes a little bit of time to adjust to college from high school, to get used to the exams and such.

If you need anymore advice from a college freshman who also started out about a year ago getting raped online, feel free to PM me.

[aces_dad]

How many tables do you play? I often play on my laptop with no PT and 2 table 6max, and can get a handle on the action at the tables pretty quickly. Only when feeling very good do I open a third on my laptop. I know others like TWP do more tables with no PT but I feel like with 2 tables and just diligent note taking I get a good handle on the players at my tables. So while PT is great for adding more tables it is certainly possible to win without it. I also suggest reducing the number of tables to 2 or 1 if you can handle it.

And you seem solid from your posts but if you're willing to buy in short to avoid turn/river decisions, then a review of all streets may be necessary. For example starting with PF, are you calling raises with easily dominated hands which lead to difficult flop decisions with TPDK? Are you following the 5/10 rule for PP's looking for sets?

Good luck with your journey, and you can build up from $100 if needed, it will just take longer than starting from $500.

[scrapperdog]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, definitely play 6 max. The fact that you post at this site and have demonstrated that you have a thorough understanding of the game assures me that you will have no problem beating NL 25 6 max. Players make far too many mistakes for you not to make money.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 6 max is full of action junkies but ... also full of harder decisions. 6 max can be way more profitable than full ring but ... I dont recomend for people on a downswing as variance is higher, full ring games are "safer". Overally nice post though.

[orange]

To clarify, I play 2 tables of 10 full on party 25NL, and to be honest, I really need help concentrating on focusing on tables. Because of my short roll, I am buying in shorter, tightening up. I thought that set mining tactics would work, so oftentimes, I surf 2+2, chat, etc, where I should be studying the tables.

6-max is not a good idea for me right now I think. I opened a 6-max table today and the swings were far greater than a 10 full table. I really need to get the hang of this internet thing though.

I feel that I have a fairly good grasp of PF/postflop play, necessary for beating the 25NL at least. I think I've been getting hit by the deck lately, but its rough because my small roll can't take these hits.

Thanks for comments. My confidence is being blown out of the water, like a sinking ship. Maybe I should take a break or something.

I think you have answered your own questions. You have a short bankroll, don't pay attention while playing, have no confidence. I'm going to say you're not as good as you think you are based on the info above and the fact you probably got hit by the deck when you went on your initial run. Take a break, study, increase BR and try it again with discipline.

[leehrat]

aces_dad: is that a wheaten terrier pup? i have one myself and they're great dogs..but they will act like pups their entire lives!

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have answered your own questions. You have a short bankroll, don't pay attention while playing, have no confidence. I'm going to say you're not as good as you think you are based on the info above and the fact you probably got hit by the deck when you went on your initial run. Take a break, study, increase BR and try it again with discipline.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never claimed to be a good player. I think I have the necessary skills in order to beat the 25NL, though. I agree on the lack of attention span- although its tough, I think I have ADD.

Personally, I would rather single table a 6max game than play 2 full tables (especially since you don't have PT). Playing one table allows you to focus more, make reads, etc.. Pay attention and I think you will be fine. Downswings suck, but they definitely happen. Losing 4 buyins in a day may hurt, but it happens to all of us. Make sure you are properly rolled to avoid going broke. GL.

[aces_dad]

It's actually a border terrier, now 2 years old ... named Ace, hence my handle. He's calming down around the house now but as a terrier will always be full of, meh, life. Very much people dogs though.

Hey isn't this a poker forum? Fold PF. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have answered your own questions. You have a short bankroll, don't pay attention while playing, have no confidence. I'm going to say you're not as good as you think you are based on the info above and the fact you probably got hit by the deck when you went on your initial run. Take a break, study, increase BR and try it again with discipline.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never claimed to be a good player. I think I have the necessary skills in order to beat the 25NL, though. I agree on the lack of attention span- although its tough, I think I have ADD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Orange,

I've read and responded to a good number of your posts. You certainly have the skill to beat 25NL+.

6That said, you have to concentrate, be disciplined at the table, and employ proper bankroll management.

You want confidence, here it is: your thinking about the game is better than 97% of your opponents at 25NL.

Have confidence, play well.

[lefty rosen]

If you play weak tight you will be able to beat both 25NL and 50NL and probably 100NL on Party(if the present conditions remain). The rocks are totally obvious and are too weak tight. The only hard decisions you will have are with the fish. If you have JJ or QQ or even KK(with a super rock)give it up for a big reraise they will have KK or better pre flop. Superfish (agrressive bad players) it's more read specific. Don't try and out play the rocks till you have your game down pat and you will beat these levels........ /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/blush.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[lefty rosen]

If you don't have the roll for 25Nl go to sites with 10Nl or even 5 and build your roll there. The quality of player will be roughly the same with variance being less of a factor......

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't have the roll for 25Nl go to sites with 10Nl or even 5 and build your roll there. The quality of player will be roughly the same with variance being less of a factor......

[/ QUOTE ]

Cannot go to other sites do to money situation atm. Hopefully I can start up soon though.

I feel your pain orange, I'm on a 200bb downswing as we speak, in a bad financial situation playing on a friends account, mine did exactly what yours did, lost his whole roll and 1/4 of mine. Take a little time to think, I've learned from hands and responses you have posted. That said I think you need to concentrate, play poker and don't do other crap at the same time. I'm a 22 year old male and this is hard for me too, but it has to be done.
Bankroll management is your best friend right now because unlike so many others you know how to play.

Good luck (you won't hear that often from me)

Cambraceres

[Isura]

When you get your party account, remember you can play at their beginner tables for the first 45 days. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[excession]

Without PT I definitely wouldn't play Ring at a site that supports it.

You might like to look at SnG's (1 table or Heads-Up) to build a small roll up with limited risk if you make a mistake..

I played 300 SnG's before I went anywhere near a Ring Game and feel that it's a great way of getting a lot of NL hands under your belt with little risk..

[PinkSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I have ADD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how failure to pay attention is now classified as an illness.

I'm not a college freshman but I was one 24 years ago. You're obviously stressed over the finances, so square them before you play another hand online. As another poster recommended, get your accounts set up, get PT and GT+ (or better yet PokerAce HUD). As you've well discovered, the edge online is thin. If you play stressed, you'll give it away.

Something that may work for you, it does for me.

I found that when I play a full table, success comes from playing super tight aggressive. Other folks at a full table generally respect raises and continuation bets. So your aggression can pay off.

At a 6max table, I find that aggressive pre-flop (unless monster starter) is just spewing chips. I think the reason is, that everyone wants in community hands no matter what the raise is. So a 3 - 4 bet raise will still get 3 - 4 callers out of 6, and if you miss you basically lost your raise.

So my strategy at a 6max table is the following:

1. Passive preflop: i.e. dont raise mid-raising hands AQ,AJ,
2. Raise high suited connectors on button or 1 off, hoping to get a chance for a free card if needed after flop.
3. Get in as many pots as possible with marginal hands when community is involved. Especially if somone is raising 3 - 4 times blind.
4. 2 pair or better after flop, play hyper aggressive.
5. Got to be willing to put your stack in the middle with the edge. Too many people still calling with middle pair let alone a top pair hand.
6. If your table is raising every time 3 - 4 BB's or so, dont be afraid to limp with a monster, and push after it gets raised. Someone will still call you with something you dominate.
7. Had to add: If someone pushes all in in front of you representing an overbet. Dont call unless you have a set or better, or a good read on them. If you have a good read on them, I still think 2 pair or better.

These are just some of the things I do when I am building at the lower levels. I buy in short, therefore I can push the edges when I hit.

[4_2_it]

You should stop playing for a day or two to collect thoughts. You need to get your head together. If you are afraid of losing then your play will suffer.

Most of the good players in this forum (you know who they are) have been on multi-buy-in downswings. You can be playing at the top of your game and still have a few devastating losing sessions. People tend to forget that we enjoy playing a game where luck is a determining factor.

Post hands, look for leaks, but most importantly, don't lose your confidence. Poker is about making right decisions. If you do that, bankroll growth will naturally occur. Think about hands/situations where you lost money. Did you make the right decision? If so, don't dwell on it, just know that if you continue to make that decision you will be way ahead over the long run.

To offer a word of encouragement, I started playing on Party two weeks ago. After about 7k hands one of my biggest losing hands is AA. The worst poker player in the world will make money playing AA so I know things will turn around and I don't let it bother me.

I hope all goes well with your parent s and you get set-up with Pokertracker. You seem like the type of player who would immediately benefit from it.

[ QUOTE ]
I really need to get the hang of this internet thing though.

I feel that I have a fairly good grasp of PF/postflop play, necessary for beating the 25NL at least. I think I've been getting hit by the deck lately, but its rough because my small roll can't take these hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

metoo ...

though I am not neccesarily a good player (yet) - I took a couple of days off and moved sites to pokerstars.

2k hands later I am down $150 /images/graemlins/frown.gif tho I am being nailed by the cards and sucked out on lots - it feels as well like everytime I hit a good hand and come out betting everyone else folds...

am I *that* predictable ? - no
is there a neon sign over my head that flashes (fold now) when I hit a good hand? - no
is AA my #1 losing hand on pokerstars so far? - yes!

variance is a female canine - but if I just wait long enough it'll all work out beautifully in the end. at least thats what I tell myself.

Take a day off - rummage through your stats and look for leaks - read and apply little nuggets of info you mine from these fabulous forums - then get back to the tables and blow a few fish out of the water.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

good luck.

[Guin]

People with ADD actually do very well at things they enjoy like poker... most of the time they hyper focus and tend to not notice the time fly by.

Of course that takes them away from all the stuff they have to do to be a responsible person.

Guin

[Andrew Fletcher]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it might be harder for a live game player to jump into the internet game than just starting at the internet game.
I think the differences between the games are pretty big. On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up. Also you get tons of reads and really get to know how the villians play, not to mention live games are notorious for donks.

I think it is possible to pick up lines that might work well in a home game and much less so on the internet. Just a thought, but you might be better leaving a lot of the things that have worked for you in home games behind, and kind of start fresh.

[/ QUOTE ]For someone just starting to play online, this is gold. I just started multi-tabling and it has really changed my poker life.

[nyc999]

Sorry to hear...

I'm in the midst of PT problems on my computer (I've been without for 2+ weeks and am still talking to support), so I decided to start single tabling $25NL 6-max. It's actually been a good thing -- taking a lot of notes and concentrating on the tendencies of different players. These are things I always do in homegames, but are somewhat lax on when I can just read PT stats.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be back with PT as soon as I can get it working, but I think if you single table for a while, post hands and offer feedback to other 2+2's you will overcome the downswing.

On a side note, that was horrible advice from the poster who said to take out a cash advance on a credit card to pay for Party Poker. Talk about a high rake + the possibility of losing the money.

[DoomSlice]

Heh, I drop 4 buyins on a semi-weekly basis. Don't worry about it.

Edit: are people really THAT dependent on PT?

[orange]

Thanks for comments/advice/thoughts. I appreciate it. If my parents don't let me set up my own account, I'm going to [censored] spaz. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

Once, again, thanks for replies.

[Mercman572]

[ QUOTE ]
On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up.

[/ QUOTE ]For someone just starting to play online, this is gold. I just started multi-tabling and it has really changed my poker life.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. The more small edges you push the greater EV you accumulate. Pushing smaller edges with more hands ensures that they would theoretically become winning plays more quickly according to the Law of Large Numbers.

Alternatively, if you can flip with a horrendous player in a live game that might get up and cash his winnings it would be a bad idea to give him the opportunity rather than wait for a 70/30 spot. Brunson says don't gamble with bad players, online I will because they are in abundance, when one leaves another can easily replace him.

[scrapperdog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up.

[/ QUOTE ]For someone just starting to play online, this is gold. I just started multi-tabling and it has really changed my poker life.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. The more small edges you push the greater EV you accumulate. Pushing smaller edges with more hands ensures that they would theoretically become winning plays more quickly according to the Law of Large Numbers.


[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that people playing small stakes are often wrong about their edge. Yes experienced players can push any possible edge, but for someone who is not experienced or does not have the confidence to follow through then they can wait for the bigger edge to show up. When an inexperienced player starts pushing small edges it often costs them their stack when they are wrong, while an more veteran player will realize when to get away from a pot after they have started on it. I am not giving advice to a veteran internet player here (he been playing a bit less then 3 months on-line), but to someone that wants to build a roll and I think it is solid advice. I would not tell an experience winner with a good bankroll role not to push small edges.

[sng-sam]

[ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller's short stack strategy

[/ QUOTE ]

forgive the noob question but where can I read this...search hates me google does too

Straight Flushes,

SAM

It is in one of his books,

However, I know about 4 people that tried it, all quit after a short while. I tried it for about 5k hands, lost $140 at 25NL.

I think that it may work live, but not on-line (the examples in his book are all of live play).

Margon

[tripp0807]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller's short stack strategy

[/ QUOTE ]

forgive the noob question but where can I read this...search hates me google does too

Straight Flushes,

SAM

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting Started in Hold 'em by Ed Miller.
Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1880685345/qid=1134414961/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-5665586-5730540?n=507846&s=books&v=glance)

[Vee Quiva]

Here is a great example of why the number of posts someone has, is not a good indicator of how good a player they are.

Playing with a very limited bankroll and playing above his limits. Very very bad.

Take what's left of your bankroll and play .25-50 or .50-$1 until you have 300BB, then move up a level. Stay away from the NL until you have your bankroll in order.

Please do not post any more bad beat griping stories until you are playing 2-4 with at least a $1200 bankroll.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a great example of why the number of posts someone has, is not a good indicator of how good a player they are.

Playing with a very limited bankroll and playing above his limits. Very very bad.

Take what's left of your bankroll and play .25-50 or .50-$1 until you have 300BB, then move up a level. Stay away from the NL until you have your bankroll in order.

Please do not post any more bad beat griping stories until you are playing 2-4 with at least a $1200 bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that there is no relevance between post count and skill level. I believe that I can succeed, despite my short roll, and I believe that I am playing at the correct level- I am used to 25NL.

In no way is this a bad beat story, merely a pathway for advice on both building a short roll and handling the variance of online poker. What may be a standard day for you (sometimes +/- 4 buyins) is highly uncommon for me, a newbie at internet poker in general.

Do you think limit is the way to go? I have never played limit in my life, and I really didn't plan on learning a new game. The differences are immense, and don't you think this would hurt my NL game/remaining bankroll instead of helping it?

[ajmargarine]

No, don't play limit you dingaling. You are a NL player. Play NL. You are so shortrolled now, you have to be very lucky to build a roll from your current amount. You have $500 you are able to put online, so if you lose what you currently have online, it's not the end of the world. Just play for now. Don't worry about the money. Just try to make the best decision each time, each hand, each decision.

And don't worry about Pokertracker. Too many people rely on that around here. I've been a consistent winner this entire year without it as my site doesn't support PT. I'll be using it now with PP, but I'm glad I became a decent player without it first, as I can read other players and don't need numbers to do so.

And if you want I'll look at a HH. PM me.

Yeah, ajmargarine has the right idea. PT is NOT crucial to playing effectively. Basically I've just been using it for table selection, and to judge when I should CB.

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a great example of why the number of posts someone has, is not a good indicator of how good a player they are.

Playing with a very limited bankroll and playing above his limits. Very very bad.

Take what's left of your bankroll and play .25-50 or .50-$1 until you have 300BB, then move up a level. Stay away from the NL until you have your bankroll in order.

Please do not post any more bad beat griping stories until you are playing 2-4 with at least a $1200 bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is a great example of why the length of time a person has been registered at 2+2, is not a good indicator of how good a poster they are.

Orange, you may not have experienced the downside of variance yet, but you know it exists. When you're appropriately rolled for your game, it sucks. When you're underrolled, it can be devastating. This is the chance you take playing with 11 buy-ins.

Since you can't deposit more cash at the moment your options aren't real appealing, but here they are:

1- don't play until you can get your finances in order. This really won't kill you.

2-Keep playing, but learn to ignore the amount you win/lose each session and focus on playing good poker (which you know how to do). This is something you need to learn anyway, it's just easier when your roll is bigger. Disregard people's comments about needing PT. It's a tool for multitablers, and with you playing 2 it's only marginally helpful. If you take this route, even if you've dropped down to 10NL (which you should if it's possible), be prepared for the possibility you can play great poker and still lose the rest of your roll.

[teamdonkey]

I'd also recommend NOT buying in small. You have a significant skill edge in the 10NL and 25NL games, don't negate it by dumbing the game down. It's not the end of the world if you dump the rest of your roll.

Take a serious break and re-examine your game. Learning limit is NOT A BAD THING. Poker theory from your NL game can help you with limit and for what it's worth, switching between the two has helped me a lot when trying to figure out my own play. NL isn't for everyone.

Also, don't lie to your parents or your friends about playing; be honest and explain yourself. If you get caught playing and depositing money after you've already been told no, you'll be in deep [censored] anyway and it will hurt your relationship with your parents

If you're on a short roll I'd try playing the .50/1.00 party poker limit games, especially the 6-max. Wait for some good cards and just jam on the bet/raise button. Almost any "2+2 approved" starting hand is +EV against most of the fish in these games.

Ok its a little more complex than that, but you get the idea. Players are HORRRRIBLE and IMO limit is a good way to practice postflop skills without losing a lot of money in the process. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Plus you only need about a $300 br to withstand the swings if you are a decent player.

FWIW I'm still a noob myself so take this advice with a grain of salt.

Steve

[DoomSlice]

Go away.

[umdpoker]

just buy in for 15 or 20 instead of the full 25, and play weak-tight til you add $200 or so to your roll. then you can play your normal game again. this will probably cut your winrate in half, but its almost impossible to have a huge downswing with this style. i do this every time i need to spend a lot of money and my roll gets short.

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a great example of why the number of posts someone has, is not a good indicator of how good a player they are.

Playing with a very limited bankroll and playing above his limits. Very very bad.

Take what's left of your bankroll and play .25-50 or .50-$1 until you have 300BB, then move up a level. Stay away from the NL until you have your bankroll in order.

Please do not post any more bad beat griping stories until you are playing 2-4 with at least a $1200 bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must feel really good being a 2/4 limit player on a $1200 bankroll!!! It must feel good being the authority on bankroll management. Go back to calculating pot equity fish.

[UOPokerPlayer]

Chill. I've read your posts and you've got an idea of what's going on. This means that your miles ahead of the vast majority of the NL25 players. Don't buy in short, you're too good for that. I say you take a break for a couple days, then just ride out this 100 dollar wave. The only problem is if you're playing differently now than you were when you ran that 20 to 440. That's bad. Variance is a bitch but you gotta take it in the gut and ride on.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a great example of why the number of posts someone has, is not a good indicator of how good a player they are.

Playing with a very limited bankroll and playing above his limits. Very very bad.

Take what's left of your bankroll and play .25-50 or .50-$1 until you have 300BB, then move up a level. Stay away from the NL until you have your bankroll in order.

Please do not post any more bad beat griping stories until you are playing 2-4 with at least a $1200 bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must feel really good being a 2/4 limit player on a $1200 bankroll!!! It must feel good being the authority on bankroll management. Go back to calculating pot equity fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes.

[scrapperdog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a great example of why the number of posts someone has, is not a good indicator of how good a player they are.

Playing with a very limited bankroll and playing above his limits. Very very bad.

Take what's left of your bankroll and play .25-50 or .50-$1 until you have 300BB, then move up a level. Stay away from the NL until you have your bankroll in order.

Please do not post any more bad beat griping stories until you are playing 2-4 with at least a $1200 bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must feel really good being a 2/4 limit player on a $1200 bankroll!!! It must feel good being the authority on bankroll management. Go back to calculating pot equity fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Send those limit players packing, this is NL territory!!

Seriously he was not griping about anything, just explaining the situation.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a great example of why the number of posts someone has, is not a good indicator of how good a player they are.

Playing with a very limited bankroll and playing above his limits. Very very bad.

Take what's left of your bankroll and play .25-50 or .50-$1 until you have 300BB, then move up a level. Stay away from the NL until you have your bankroll in order.

Please do not post any more bad beat griping stories until you are playing 2-4 with at least a $1200 bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

You must feel really good being a 2/4 limit player on a $1200 bankroll!!! It must feel good being the authority on bankroll management. Go back to calculating pot equity fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Send those limit players packing, this is NL territory!!

Seriously he was not griping about anything, just explaining the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean I shouldn't be playing NL $400 with a $1,200 bankroll? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Vee Quiva]

[ QUOTE ]
You must feel really good being a 2/4 limit player on a $1200 bankroll!!! It must feel good being the authority on bankroll management

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not mention in my original post how much I have in my poker bankroll. How much I have is nobody's business. I will tell you that I am comfortably funded for the level of games that I play.

The main thing is that I am tired of posters complaining they are running bad and then finding out they are playing with a bankroll of 10 buyins.

Playing short causes all kinds of problems. Playing timid, buying in short, unnecessary ulcers. If there was ever a game invented that punished timid play, it's no limit hold'em.

So Isura take a chill pill. I am right, you know I am right, and I think a direct, no bs response to Orange's post was the best way to get through to him.

[WhoIam]

I've read through the thread and I really don't understand all your "if my parents let me" crap. I assume you have super-controlling parents who monitor your life and finances. If you're in college, you're probably at least 18, which is old enough to open an account without anyone's permission. More importantly, if you want to play poker without them finding out, you're old enough to open a bank account by yourself. Just deposit the $100 or whatever the bank wants, verify with neteller, and you're good to go. If your parents take every paycheck and every gift from relatives to put in "your" account, there should be plenty of odd jobs and experiments to do around campus to get a little cash.
If you have to use your parents' computer just play when they aren't there/asleep and delete party poker when you're done. They obviously don't investigate your internet practices too thoroughly because you have 1000+ posts here.
Another thing is that at some point, you're going to have to tell your parents in no uncertain terms to go to hell and mind their own business. I'm not saying you should do this over poker, but at some point they're going to have to realize that you're not a bonsai tree whose growth and development is determined years in advance and then forcibly shaped to meet this image. Assuming they're paying for most of college, I would wait until I'm almost done to do this. If you don't, they're going to try to micromanage your life for decades to come.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read through the thread and I really don't understand all your "if my parents let me" crap. I assume you have super-controlling parents who monitor your life and finances. If you're in college, you're probably at least 18, which is old enough to open an account without anyone's permission. More importantly, if you want to play poker without them finding out, you're old enough to open a bank account by yourself. Just deposit the $100 or whatever the bank wants, verify with neteller, and you're good to go. If your parents take every paycheck and every gift from relatives to put in "your" account, there should be plenty of odd jobs and experiments to do around campus to get a little cash.
If you have to use your parents' computer just play when they aren't there/asleep and delete party poker when you're done. They obviously don't investigate your internet practices too thoroughly because you have 1000+ posts here.
Another thing is that at some point, you're going to have to tell your parents in no uncertain terms to go to hell and mind their own business. I'm not saying you should do this over poker, but at some point they're going to have to realize that you're not a bonsai tree whose growth and development is determined years in advance and then forcibly shaped to meet this image. Assuming they're paying for most of college, I would wait until I'm almost done to do this. If you don't, they're going to try to micromanage your life for decades to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

My mother, though a lovely woman, believes poker is not a morally just " " way to make money. Even though I played it thorougly through the summer, she never really thought of it as a way to make money, merely an activity.

Yes, I am 18, soon to be 19. I have not yet talked to my parents about depositing yet, but plan to this winter vacation.

Your advice on telling my parents to [censored] off, well, I don't know if that would be such a good idea at the moment. True, I could easily set up my own poker account/netteller account right away. I could have done that a year ago. But without my parent's consent, I think my education payment could get in the way, which, in my opinion, is more important than poker.

I will present my thoughts to them this break. "It's my money, my decision, my life, etc". And to be honest, if they give me a plausible reason to NOT deposit, and perhaps the results thereof, I probobly won't. I do agree that one day, I will have to put my foot down and tell them to back off. But over poker, and over my education, I don't think is a good idea.

[4_2_it]

Orange,

Nice to see someone under 21 who has his head on straight. Don't let the haters bother you. If mom and dad are paying for college, I think giving their opinions the respect they deserve is appropriate.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
Orange,

Nice to see someone under 21 who has his head on straight. Don't let the haters bother you. If mom and dad are paying for college, I think giving their opinions the respect they deserve is appropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think my dad would seriously get pissed if I just snuck behind his back and started setting up my own stuff, taking $500 out of my bank, etc. He's paying for a third of my college, which is a pretty big sum.

[teamdonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
So Isura take a chill pill. I am right, you know I am right

[/ QUOTE ]

your advice to a person playing 25NL underrolled was to switch to limit. You also called him a bad player, when he's just practicing bad bankroll management. If that was right, i'd hate to see a post where you're wrong.

Orange - after thinking about it, i think you need to reconsider this sequence of events:

[ QUOTE ]
2 weeks ago, found $20 back in his account

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Help, I'm getting raped online... I'm down to my last $100

[/ QUOTE ]

[orange]

Yes, I suppose I'm freerolling here. It still feels dirty when I'm losing it though. I suppose this is the best way to learn BR management/online variance.

I know many of you can lose 4-buyins without much hurt- its just another day for you. I'm just not used to it I guess.

I agree with 42 it. You are making the correct choice by asking your parents. A college education is so much more important than a Party Poker account.

[derick]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I suppose I'm freerolling here. It still feels dirty when I'm losing it though. I suppose this is the best way to learn BR management/online variance.

I know many of you can lose 4-buyins without much hurt- its just another day for you. I'm just not used to it I guess.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not it's not, the best way to learn BR management.
Read "Gambling Theory and other Topics" By Mason Malmuth.

If you can't afford the book keep posting and asking questions.
Although some forum members flame whenever someone asks a BR question eventually you get a good answer.

(Note: As I've said before I took as shot a 600NL with a short bankroll and got hit with the deck and quadrupled my bankroll in a couple of days. I admit I didn't practice what most people would consider good money management.)

[Akzhel]

This is how you do it:

As soon as you open up a table put it in the middle of the screen somewhere. Open one "empty note" for each player (you know the ones you get by right-clicking) decided that within 30 minutes none of these notes should be empty. Start filling in the notes with whatever crap you see. Like "bets draws" "steal raises with crap with many limper" etc. This is not so much for actually use these reads in the future as it is about focusing on the game.