Tough river call with low flush

Villain is 21/8/3 over 120 hands. Seems pretty solid, hasn't done anything crazy.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

SB ($39.85)
BB ($184.15)
UTG ($95.90)
MP ($50)
Hero ($186.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.50. MP posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP (poster) checks, Hero calls $1, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, SB folds, BB calls $3, MP folds.

Turn: ($10) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $9</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $25</font>, Hero calls $16.

River: ($60) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $58</font>, Hero ???

What do I do here?

[PoBoy321]

Easy fold. If villain was overplaying his set, he's now playing his full house just fine.

This flush is trash here, I fold to that actiob with those stats.

Cambraceres

So, I tell him I have the flush, then fold. He doesn't show, then says, "You folded a flush?" I ask him what he had, he says "TP." I say, "haha, right." He replies, "actually top pair w/ FD." Probably just trying to tilt me, but I guess I'll never know. If that 9 doesn't hit the river, I'm definitely calling. Sucks, but it wouldn't been worse to lose the extra 58 to a boat.

[pokernose]

I don't like your play on the turn. I think you need to either re-raise (if you think you have the best hand) or fold (if you don't). If you really aren't sure where you are at, make a decision and run with it. There are too many cards that can come to beat you if you have the best hand. I do whatever it takes to end the hand on the turn.

I'm not as knowledgeable as some of the other players here but before I saw any replies to your OP I said it was an easy call, and I stick to it. Here's my reasoning:

First of all it goes without saying that much depends on your read on this player from prior hands. Is he aggressive or passive? It might be a fold if he's been a rock for the most part. But I assume he hasn't been.

I would have put him on second pair. It seemed to me that he was trying to get you off the hand on the turn with the raise. When you called, he put you on top pair, but thought he got lucky when the river gave him trips.

I definitely would have reraised him on turn instead of just calling. By this point, you have a good pot to take down, and raising would give you some more information about the hand. If he was bluffing, he would have folded, and you take a nice pot. If he calls, then he is on a strong hand, but you probably still have him beat unless he also flopped the flush.

But here's the thing. On the river you've already built about a $59 pot. Him betting the pot still gives you enough odds to call with a flush. My thinking is that if he got lucky enough to hit the full, you're just gonna have to pay him off here. Which is why you have to have the bank roll and stomach for NL

(But you shoulda reraised turn, maybe gone all in).

[cs3]

I three bet the turn for half his remaing stack.

Your reason for not 3-betting?

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
I three bet the turn for half his remaing stack.

Your reason for not 3-betting?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain is as TAGGISH as his stats imply hero should be folding this turn, not 3-betting. Im not saying I ever do this, but to me it looks like villain has the nut flush.

If hero thinks his hand is best on turn (and worth calling), then a turn push is in order.

[ QUOTE ]
I three bet the turn for half his remaing stack.

Your reason for not 3-betting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at villains stats, the turn bet did not scare him off a bit. With three of the same suit to a flop, and a bet, a player with those stats will fold with anything vulnerable, this villain did not fold, he showed more strength. You will at times see a flush you beat, but not often enough to make any loot on it.


Cambraceres

[djoyce003]

villain didn't have tp..he had the FH, trust me.

[noggindoc]

[ QUOTE ]
villain didn't have tp..he had the FH, trust me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't the full have to be 55 or Q9 exactly? QQ doesn't make sense given the betting. Wouldn't a set or top two bet the flop?

I think this is a call.

[djoyce003]

they might not given the number of people in the hand....they could think the flush is extremely likely. QQ isn't out of the realm of possibilities here, although I do consider it to be unlikely. Also this is the BB and he didn't have to pay to see this flop so 95 isn't out of the realm of possibilities either.

[cs3]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I three bet the turn for half his remaing stack.

Your reason for not 3-betting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at villains stats, the turn bet did not scare him off a bit. With three of the same suit to a flop, and a bet, a player with those stats will fold with anything vulnerable, this villain did not fold, he showed more strength. You will at times see a flush you beat, but not often enough to make any loot on it.


Cambraceres

[/ QUOTE ]

if villian is as good as TAGish as suggested, then would he not put hero on a set, and slow down when the river pairs the board knowing his nut flsuh may be no good? i would imagine a check/call on the river by villain if that were the case. so, given your reasoning, do you think its possible to push all-in over his river bet, representing the full house, and get him to lay down his hand? or is heros remaining stack too small for this move?


not saying my line is any good, just trying to understand why several people strongly disagree with it...