take home exam situation

[jdl22]

A class I'm taking consists of lectures, some discussions, and two exams. We're only graded on the exams. It's a graduate class so grades don't really matter.

The two exams are take home. They give the following rules:
There are three pairs of questions each pair on a distinct stapled-shut sheet of paper. You must do one question from each pair. You have 8 hours to complete the exam. You can either do all of it at once, or break it up but from the time you've opened a pair of questions until you finish that question the clock is ticking. You may consult any materials you wish but should not talk to others.

In lecture at one point the professor admitted that there is no way for them to know how much time you take, it's just the good old honor system.

So would you follow the rules?

[jdl22]

It occurs to me that I switched the first and second question wording so that 1 is asking if you will not cheat and two is asking if you would cheat. Since you can't edit polls I guess I'll stay with it.

[Yeti]

I'm surprised by the results.

[WackityWhiz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised by the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya, i expected question #2 to have different results. I guess I'm just dishonest.

-WW

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a graduate class so grades don't really matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

And thus there is zero reason to cheat. And you're right, the grades don't matter.

[tonypaladino]

I would definatly try to limit myself, but if I needed to go over the time I would not hesitate to do so.

As far as working with others, it would depend on how comfortable I am with the material, and how well I know the other person. In general, I prefer to do school work on my own. I despise group projects and the such.

TONY

[surfinillini]

don't do takehome exams as a group, a bunch of us in my fraternity did this in a history 100 class of 2000 people, we thought they wouldn't be able to see it...well we were wrong and 8 of us had to accpet an F as a final grade, luckily I took the class with credit/non-credit which is kept hidden from the profs so it really didn't matter for me /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised by the results.

[/ QUOTE ]

ya, i expected question #2 to have different results. I guess I'm just dishonest.

-WW

[/ QUOTE ]

The results of question 2 (on which I voted no) have more to do with not knowing who you can trust more than anything else IMO. If I had a friend in the class, I'm certain we'd collaborate on the exam, but just approaching someone in the class is really stupid. The 1 grade doesn't matter all that much, and it would really suck to get ratted out/kicked out of school over trying to save a little time or get a slightly better grade.

i voted 81-99 would cheat, but i think that's the number that would cheat if they felt they needed to in order to pass. i also said i'd use more than eight hours if necessary. i think most people would be able to finish the exam at a reasonable level within eight hours though, meaning there's no motivation to cheat.

i'd never collaborate unless it was with someone i was really close to, would suck to get kicked out of school for no good reason.

[gumpzilla]

It also seems pretty clear to me upon reading the replies to this thread so far that people either don't understand that it's graduate school or that that makes a difference.

[David04]

[ QUOTE ]
The results of question 2 (on which I voted no) have more to do with not knowing who you can trust more than anything else IMO. If I had a friend in the class, I'm certain we'd collaborate on the exam, but just approaching someone in the class is really stupid. The 1 grade doesn't matter all that much, and it would really suck to get ratted out/kicked out of school over trying to save a little time or get a slightly better grade.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is what I was thinking, but you put it much better than I would have.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
It also seems pretty clear to me upon reading the replies to this thread so far that people either don't understand that it's graduate school or that that makes a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's the case that people don't understand that it makes a difference, why don't you explain the difference? Or do you just like sounding pompous on the internet?

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a graduate class so grades don't really matter.


[/ QUOTE ]

so where is the incentive to cheat?

I'm in a fairly competitive (in that grades matter to an extent) post-graduate program right now and aside from wanting to get A's, I want to learn the coursework because a) i enjoy it, b) i'll have to use it in my career; and c) I am paying tuition so that great professors can teach me. Cheating fails to achieve any of those benefits of the degree. Not to mention the awesome time anyone who gets caught will have.

I don't care if everyone else in the class is working together against me, I'll study my ass off and try my best anyway.

[ethan]

63% of you suck.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/456/cheat2un.jpg

When I was in grad school, I once saw a note on the chalkboard in an office that the first year students shared saying `The solution to problem 2 of the take home is on p. 126 of the book on the table.' The person who I am convinced wrote that note said that he didn't understand why I thought it was wrong to do so.

[DrPublo]

Cheating is the lowest of the low.

The Doc

EDIT: Especially if you are in graduate school. You chose to go to graduate school because you obviously want to learn more about whatever it is you are studying. Doesn't academic integrity mean anything to you?

[chesspain]

Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have take home reviews (tests) with an honor code time limit here (Davidson College) and I'd say >90% follow the time limit.

We also have self-scheduled exams with no proctor and I'd say <1% cheat.

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of profs at my school give these. then again, we also have in-class exams without any supervision.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of profs at my school give these. then again, we also have in-class exams without any supervision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where are you in school, Ed?

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of profs at my school give these. then again, the entire graduating class manages a 4.0 .

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[TheIrishThug]

edtost,
where do u go and what's ur major?

most of my teachers still try to make ppl sit every other seat even though its impossible with the number of seats in the room.

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any instructor who gives a take-home exam with a honor code time limit is an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of profs at my school give these. then again, the entire graduating class manages a 4.0 .

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

not quite. new regulations require a maximum of 35% A's in coursework and 50% A's in independant work per semester, for each department. that said, i remember reading an article a couple of years ago stating that a 3.0 average wouldd have put a student in the bottom 10% of that year's graduating class.

edited to add detail.

[BradleyT]

Who honestly spends 8 hours completing a homework project?

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
edtost,
where do u go and what's ur major?

[/ QUOTE ]

Princeton; Operations Research and Financial Engineering

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
Who honestly spends 8 hours completing a homework project?

[/ QUOTE ]

there was a thread about longest time spent on an exam a while ago (started by JA Sucker?). Most responses were > 24hrs, though i imagine that was a fairly self-selective sample.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

If it's the case that people don't understand that it makes a difference, why don't you explain the difference? Or do you just like sounding pompous on the internet?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not kidding when he says the grades don't matter, which is the difference (not that it justifies cheating as an undergrad) - there really should be no incentive to cheat. Maybe if you're on an NSF fellowship or something grades matter, but for the most part the only distinction that's important is whether you're failing or not. And even that's pretty flexible. Numerous friends of mine had a GPA below what the university nominally allows at some point, and all that happens is you get a letter saying "Knock it off" and there's zero enforcement. Even the guy I know who has failed basically every class and has been fired from a research position once is still here three years later. This is neglecting that to fail these classes generally requires you to be seriously not trying. The professors don't want to fail you, because it's a pain in the ass for everybody, and the classes aren't what you're really there for.

At least in the sciences, what matters when you're done is what research you've done, who you know, etc. Nobody gives a rat's ass about your grades. Maybe the story is different if you're going for a master's degree in spirituality or something like that, but I doubt it pretty highly.

EDIT: Is everybody's concern with not talking to other people simply that you'll get ratted out? Man, that's lame.

Nobody but yourself can track the time you use.

Talking to someone else is bad- this is the kind of thing that gets you ratted out.

Another interesting situation is if you would use reference material (looking up formulas, etc.) when the professor says that you cannot. I'm guessing that people who would take more time would use reference if necessary, I classify them as generally the same thing.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody but yourself can track the time you use.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends. There was a distinction at my college between self-scheduled exams and take home exams. Self-scheduled meant you showed up at the registrar's office, checked in, and gave your exam back within the time limit that had been allotted. Take home was the same thing, for the most part, but you got 24 hours to return the test. The bulk of my final exams were administered in this way. Some of mine were take-home 4-hour finals on an honor system, a couple were week-long finals.

[webmonarch]

[ QUOTE ]
63% of you suck.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/456/cheat2un.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was really surprised by this. Really surprised at the number.

Personally, I would just not want to know that I cheated. I mean, even if the prof. didn't, I would.

Also, if there is one thing I have learned, its that grades mean jack [censored] when it comes to what you really learned. Of course, the world doesn't work that way, so I guess in the end, I'm not that surprised.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
63% of you suck.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/456/cheat2un.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was really surprised by this. Really surprised at the number.

Personally, I would just not want to know that I cheated. I mean, even if the prof. didn't, I would.

Also, if there is one thing I have learned, its that grades mean jack [censored] when it comes to what you really learned. Of course, the world doesn't work that way, so I guess in the end, I'm not that surprised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace, and almost certainly wouldn't do the whole thing straight through with no breaks.

[goofball]

Anyone who cheats here should be thrown out of school. Especially if you're in a fcuking graduate programm for christ sakes. You're supposed to be studying something you love and motivated to learn.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason you have to turn it in at all is because some self-important academic [censored] told you so. Why bother handing it in at all? I enjoy how self-righteous you seem to be about this. It's the man that's rushing you and preventing you from learning; when, of course, if it really mattered that much to you, you could hand the exam in for credit and then keep working on it on your own.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace, and almost certainly wouldn't do the whole thing straight through with no breaks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. The Man's trying to keep you down, so [censored] The Man.

The Man also tells you to wear your seatbelt and drive on the right-hand side of the road.

Fight the power. Show him who's boss.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason you have to turn it in at all is because some self-important academic [censored] told you so. Why bother handing it in at all? I enjoy how self-righteous you seem to be about this. It's the man that's rushing you and preventing you from learning; when, of course, if it really mattered that much to you, you could hand the exam in for credit and then keep working on it on your own.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that time limit is stupid, arbitrary, and unenforceable. If you were working, do you think one of your bosses would give you some task to do and say, "Have this on my desk by 3:00 tomorrow, but don't spend anymore than 2 hours working on it"? And no, the reason I have to turn it in at all is not because some professor said so. The reason I have to turn it in is that there are widely-accepted standards of what should be required to get a particular degree. If a professor decided to have no tests or papers or projects or anything else, and just have his lectures and give everybody an 84 at the end of the semester, my guess is that he'd catch a lot of [censored] over it in most fields of study.

Speaking as a former graduate student, academic honesty, especially in a graduate program, is very, very important. You could cheat and probably get away with it, but to quote the professor of a friend of mine, "you will never, ever feel good about it." As time goes by, the grade will be less and less important but the knowledge that you cheated will haunt you. And you can never tell anyone you did.

I honestly cannot imagine any of my former colleagues cheating on an exam like that. Not one of them.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

The difference is that time limit is stupid, arbitrary, and unenforceable. If you were working, do you think one of your bosses would give you some task to do and say, "Have this on my desk by 3:00 tomorrow, but don't spend anymore than 2 hours working on it"? And no, the reason I have to turn it in at all is not because some professor said so. The reason I have to turn it in is that there are widely-accepted standards of what should be required to get a particular degree. If a professor decided to have no tests or papers or projects or anything else, and just have his lectures and give everybody an 84 at the end of the semester, my guess is that he'd catch a lot of [censored] over it in most fields of study.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is unfortunate that college has become universally expected when at all possible in the U.S., because it strikes me that people like you don't really belong there.

[ThinkQuick]

[ QUOTE ]

The results of question 2 (on which I voted no) have more to do with not knowing who you can trust more than anything else IMO. If I had a friend in the class, I'm certain we'd collaborate on the exam, but just approaching someone in the class is really stupid. The 1 grade doesn't matter all that much, and it would really suck to get ratted out/kicked out of school over trying to save a little time or get a slightly better grade.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.
These two options have very different chances of getting caught/blackmailed and that makes a big difference.

[EliteNinja]

I voted no, no, and 81-99%.

Be a man!
Do the right thing!

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to rush on something just because some self-important academic [censored] says I should. If I have 24 hours to get the thing turned back in, I'm going to do it at my own pace, and almost certainly wouldn't do the whole thing straight through with no breaks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. The Man's trying to keep you down, so [censored] The Man.

The Man also tells you to wear your seatbelt and drive on the right-hand side of the road.

Fight the power. Show him who's boss.

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, a time limit on a take-home exam is more analogous to a speed limit sign than it is to driving on the right side of the road or wearing a seat belt.

[mmcd]

I love threads like this because they invariably bring the people that take life way too seriously out of the woodwork.

Hopefully, the poll results will serve to remind them how out of touch with reality they are.

[lastchance]

I made my answer before I saw the "It's a graduate class, so grades don't really matter." I need to start applying that concept (eh.. HS, multiple AP classes, getting 3.0 should be fine)

[mmbt0ne]

Bump because I've got 2 of these right now. One that is pretty open, and one that is very obviously no collaboration. Some people in the no collaboration class had a meeting yesterday afternoon to work on the exam anyway, which I decided late not to go to because I was hanging out with my girlfriend. Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.


BUSTED!

In my experience, these timed take-home exams always gave me more than enough time to finish the exam to my satisfaction. So I'd say if you need more than 8 hours, you're just stupid, and no matter how much time you take, you'll do poorly on the exam.

A desire to work with others would also suggests that you are stupid, for two reasons. First, why give your peers the advantage of using your answers? Unless you're stupider than they, working together wouldn't benefit you. Two, you'll get caught very easily doing this, and get kicked out of school.

Finally, cheating in grad school is pointless; you'll get good marks even if you turn in a piece of dog sh!t.

Unless you're truly posting this question out of curiosity, you are a fool.

[ QUOTE ]
I made my answer before I saw the "It's a graduate class, so grades don't really matter." I need to start applying that concept (eh.. HS, multiple AP classes, getting 3.0 should be fine)

[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, no. HS grades matter immensely. You should be busting your ass to get grades in HS. College grades also matter, but less so. Graduate school grades are meaningless.

[IronDragon1]

[ QUOTE ]

Finally, cheating in grad school is pointless; you'll get good marks even if you turn in a piece of dog sh!t.


[/ QUOTE ]

I plan on testing this hypothesis over the next three days.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.



[/ QUOTE ]

Translation:

I have heard a very reliable rumor that several students in the class have collaborated on the exam. I do not know (and certainly can not prove), however, exactly who those students are. I sincerely hope that one or more of them are stupid enough to respond to this e-mail so I can get to the bottom of the matter. Otherwise, I would be left without any recourse other than to either ignore the matter or readminister the exam to the entire class in a more controlled setting.


Sincerely,

Professor John Q. Jerkoff


All of you that purport to hold "honesty" and "integrety" in such high regard should be appaled at this letter. Other than maybe "I love you" or "The check's in the mail", "We already know you did it, and things will go much easier on you if you just fess up" is probably one of the most oft-repeated lies out there. That professor ought to be ashamed of himself for sending out such a blatantly deceptive e-mail in an attempt to punish dishonesty.

[lastchance]

Ok, got it, slack off later. Still, I probably care way too much about my grades, just got to do all of my work correctly, and accept it.

[pokerjoker]

wow, its always amazing to me how many ***** players are cheaters. It bothers me more because most of the people here are probably of genius IQ or close to it.

If you are intelligent enough to beat ***** you are intelligent enough to succeed without cheating.

/end moral rant.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
wow, its always amazing to me how many ***** players are cheaters. It bothers me more because most of the people here are probably of genius IQ or close to it.

If you are intelligent enough to beat ***** you are intelligent enough to succeed without cheating.

/end moral rant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, maybe we're intelligent enough to weigh the ev of cheating on a test the same way we weigh the ev of countless other decisions.

My god so many of you are liars. Your holier than though, "cheating is always wrong" diatribe you are giving to others is so hypocritical it isn't even funny. Ok, the 2nd question I believe. I wouldn't feel the need to work with others. You people that say you wouldn't go over the 8 hours are bull shitters though. If you felt the only way you could pass was to go over the 8 hours, you would do it. 100% of you. Don't even try to answer back "I have integrity and morals, blah blah", cause you're lying. You wouldn't fail an entire graduate level class by stopping at 8 hours if it only took 10 hours for you to have a passing final exam. Sheesh.

[tonypaladino]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.



[/ QUOTE ]

Translation:

I have heard a very reliable rumor that several students in the class have collaborated on the exam. I do not know (and certainly can not prove), however, exactly who those students are. I sincerely hope that one or more of them are stupid enough to respond to this e-mail so I can get to the bottom of the matter. Otherwise, I would be left without any recourse other than to either ignore the matter or readminister the exam to the entire class in a more controlled setting.


Sincerely,

Professor John Q. Jerkoff


All of you that purport to hold "honesty" and "integrety" in such high regard should be appaled at this letter. Other than maybe "I love you" or "The check's in the mail", "We already know you did it, and things will go much easier on you if you just fess up" is probably one of the most oft-repeated lies out there. That professor ought to be ashamed of himself for sending out such a blatantly deceptive e-mail in an attempt to punish dishonesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

spot on

[MelchyBeau]

[ QUOTE ]

Bump because I've got 2 of these right now. One that is pretty open, and one that is very obviously no collaboration. Some people in the no collaboration class had a meeting yesterday afternoon to work on the exam anyway, which I decided late not to go to because I was hanging out with my girlfriend. Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.


BUSTED!

[/ QUOTE ]

Something like this happened in my Differential Equations class but worse. We had a project where you could work with a partner on and you had to do it in MathCAD. It ended up being one group doing the assignment and everyone but 2 groups (mine and some others) copied it. The thing that set it off was when you moused over an equation it showed the original header file that noone bothered to change, OOPS. Even worse was the project would have scored a low C. I didn't trust other peoples work in the engineering school to copy from them. At my alma mater they seemed to suffer from group think.

Melch

[mmbt0ne]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.



[/ QUOTE ]

Translation:

I have heard a very reliable rumor that several students in the class have collaborated on the exam. I do not know (and certainly can not prove), however, exactly who those students are. I sincerely hope that one or more of them are stupid enough to respond to this e-mail so I can get to the bottom of the matter. Otherwise, I would be left without any recourse other than to either ignore the matter or readminister the exam to the entire class in a more controlled setting.


Sincerely,

Professor John Q. Jerkoff


All of you that purport to hold "honesty" and "integrety" in such high regard should be appaled at this letter. Other than maybe "I love you" or "The check's in the mail", "We already know you did it, and things will go much easier on you if you just fess up" is probably one of the most oft-repeated lies out there. That professor ought to be ashamed of himself for sending out such a blatantly deceptive e-mail in an attempt to punish dishonesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly possible, but the last time when the CS department pulled this "bluff" it ended with 100+ students being expelled.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.



[/ QUOTE ]

Translation:

I have heard a very reliable rumor that several students in the class have collaborated on the exam. I do not know (and certainly can not prove), however, exactly who those students are. I sincerely hope that one or more of them are stupid enough to respond to this e-mail so I can get to the bottom of the matter. Otherwise, I would be left without any recourse other than to either ignore the matter or readminister the exam to the entire class in a more controlled setting.


Sincerely,

Professor John Q. Jerkoff


All of you that purport to hold "honesty" and "integrety" in such high regard should be appaled at this letter. Other than maybe "I love you" or "The check's in the mail", "We already know you did it, and things will go much easier on you if you just fess up" is probably one of the most oft-repeated lies out there. That professor ought to be ashamed of himself for sending out such a blatantly deceptive e-mail in an attempt to punish dishonesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly possible, but the last time when the CS department pulled this "bluff" it ended with 100+ students being expelled.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's obviously trying to create a bastardized prisoner's dilema here. All it takes is one or two to come in and fess up, then they can get everybody. Maybe the first few to confess get a much lighter punishment, but the fact remains that if nobody says a thing, they got nothing other than rumor and innuendo. How could he possibly have a list of names(I am assuming that these people weren't stupid enough to work openly in the library or something)? I highly doubt someone in the group had a crisis of conscience and walked in to his office out of the blue and confessed. More than likely, some busybody overheard a couple of people talking about putting a group together and felt compelled to report it to the professor. As long as they weren't stupid enough to hand in 8 identical tests, if nobody who was actually present in the room says, [censored], nothing would ever come of this. The problem is, I guarantee you at least one of the people involved will cave and respond to that e-mail. This is why I said "no" to question 2 on the poll unless I had a close friend in the class. For those of you that answered "yes" to that question: Do you really trust that some random acquaintances from class would know how to properly handle themselves in this situation? I hope the group of kids involved had the commone sense to discreetly get everybody together to strategize/discuss the situation immediately after the e-mail went out. I also hope that whoever supplied this information to the professor gets what's coming to them.

This thread is literally making me feel ill. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

At least it's given me something to think about if I ever teach undergraduates again.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread is literally making me feel ill. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

At least it's given me something to think about if I ever teach undergraduates again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sad, isn't it? After a couple years in grad school I decided I didn't have it in me to get the PhD, at least not now. I haven't ruled out going back. My undergrad was at Harvey Mudd, which has a real honor code. Exams are take-home, and people actually treat that with respect. It's almost as if they're interested in learning something.

Don't get me wrong. There are still people who go to TA office hours for "help" asking "so, what's the answer to #1? Ok, #2?"...etc. And it's easier for profs/tutors just to give out the answers. I have real respect for people who actually try to get their students to learn something. But it seems increasingly rare, since just giving out the answers will take care of office hours so quickly.

But really...if you don't have it in you to take a grad-school exam according to an honor code, you don't belong in grad school.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.



[/ QUOTE ]

Translation:

I have heard a very reliable rumor that several students in the class have collaborated on the exam. I do not know (and certainly can not prove), however, exactly who those students are. I sincerely hope that one or more of them are stupid enough to respond to this e-mail so I can get to the bottom of the matter. Otherwise, I would be left without any recourse other than to either ignore the matter or readminister the exam to the entire class in a more controlled setting.


Sincerely,

Professor John Q. Jerkoff


All of you that purport to hold "honesty" and "integrety" in such high regard should be appaled at this letter. Other than maybe "I love you" or "The check's in the mail", "We already know you did it, and things will go much easier on you if you just fess up" is probably one of the most oft-repeated lies out there. That professor ought to be ashamed of himself for sending out such a blatantly deceptive e-mail in an attempt to punish dishonesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I change my original answer from "this instructor is an idiot" to "this instructor is an idiot and a tool."

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.



[/ QUOTE ]

Translation:

I have heard a very reliable rumor that several students in the class have collaborated on the exam. I do not know (and certainly can not prove), however, exactly who those students are. I sincerely hope that one or more of them are stupid enough to respond to this e-mail so I can get to the bottom of the matter. Otherwise, I would be left without any recourse other than to either ignore the matter or readminister the exam to the entire class in a more controlled setting.


Sincerely,

Professor John Q. Jerkoff


All of you that purport to hold "honesty" and "integrety" in such high regard should be appaled at this letter. Other than maybe "I love you" or "The check's in the mail", "We already know you did it, and things will go much easier on you if you just fess up" is probably one of the most oft-repeated lies out there. That professor ought to be ashamed of himself for sending out such a blatantly deceptive e-mail in an attempt to punish dishonesty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I change my original goals in life from " I want to make money at poker " to " I want to be a professional psych mod ."

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[gumpzilla]

The professor doesn't necessarily have to be bluffing. You're neglecting how stupidly obvious it frequently is that people have cheated. Here are a couple of examples:

1) A friend of mine when TAing got one of the weekly quizzes back. Two of them had identical handwriting; the sole effort made to disguise the handwriting was that on one quiz the student wrote all of his Rs backwards, Toys R Us style. The answers were exactly the same and horrendously wrong.

2) I was grading homework for a course at one point, and found that the other TA had prepared solutions with numerous errors - four out of thirteen questions were answered incorrectly. I received three assignments that were entirely correct except for those four problems, where the exact same mistakes were made. After I asked the students about this, one of them actually said to me, "Well, it never explicitly said that we couldn't copy the solutions for the homework assignments," which, while technically true, seems pretty excruciatingly dumb.

I also think that what I find more bothering than the cheating discussed here is the amazing amount of rationalization and justification of it. Do what you gotta, I guess, but I can't believe how many of you seriously seem to think you're in the right here.

[stigmata]

Depens how difficult the exam is. I would probably "sit" the exam with a good/trusted friend(s), and discuss it with them while we worked. Just to alleviate the boredom more than anything. If it takes longer than the alloted time, whatever, but I doubt it will.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
The professor doesn't necessarily have to be bluffing. You're neglecting how stupidly obvious it frequently is that people have cheated. Here are a couple of examples:


[/ QUOTE ]

If he had any clear evidence like in your example, he would have just sent e-mails to the the individuals involved that said something like, "Come into my office this afternoon, we need to talk."

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

If he had any clear evidence like in your example, he would have just sent e-mails to the the individuals involved that said something like, "Come into my office this afternoon, we need to talk."

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes this is true, but in my case I also did it in a very similar way, even though I knew who cheated.

I think something you're neglecting is that honesty and integrity about what work you claim as your own is very important professionally (and usually idealistically) to academics. This sort of attitude is frequently something they wish to inspire. So while I think your interpretation that he's just trying to trick people into admitting they cheated is certainly possible, I think it's also possible that he knows that certain people cheated and is giving them a chance to step up and admit it. It is also much easier for him to dock your final exam score as he says than to fail you for academic dishonesty, even if you do confess, at least if this is like most university settings that I'm familiar with.

[mmcd]

It just seems like an awfully strange coincidence that method he's using to deal with the cheaters is the exact same method police and other authority figures use to unravel conspiracies. From what I gathered from the original post on the matter, it seems that this e-mail went out very soon after the exam was administered. It is very unlikely that he looked over all of the exams and picked out similarities that were indicative of a bunch of students working together. In fact, I think the only way this would be feasible was if the exam was scantron, and a bunch of them came out exactly the same.

Additionally, in a situation like this, what he "knows" and what he can prove are two entirely different things. Unless the students were blatantly obvious about what they did, there's really nothing he can do about it unless someone that was involved confesses.

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
Today we got this e-mail.


It saddens me to say that several students have ignored my warning on
collaboration on the final exam.

I do have names for individuals who committed this breach of my trust
and the Georgia Tech Honor Code.

I will therefor give you a choice:

You can respond to this e-mail and admit to me that you collaborated,
and I will dock your exam grade by 40 points (out of 110).

or

I will turn your names over to your respective Departments and the Dean
of Students and, given that you have this choice, do my best to see you
dismissed from Georgia Tech.

You have until Wednesday at 5 PM to choose.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to know what ended up happening here, and any info about what got this whole mess started. Please post an update if you know what happened.

[mrkilla]

are you kidding, you cheat as much as you can when you can, have someone else you know can ace it take it for you.

Honor system my a..

Seriously though you just need to pass/fail the class for a fancy piece of paper that looks good on a resume. I can't name one thing I took in a college class that I use in my everyday life or needed in my carerr.

The places I applied at only wanted to know I suffered like they did and took the classes/ graduated with a decent GPA no one asks how you passed them.

The only reason not to , is if the prof is gonan find out or you have an amzingly guilty complex about this sort of thing.