Party Snowball Tournament - A Joke

The orginzation of this tournament was terrible. 57 people were preregistered and there was no sort of check in or anything to ensure that people were actually there. When the tournament started only 18 people of 57 registered people were actually playing.

The tournament had 6 tables.

2 tables consisted of 1 player who was there and 9 who were not there and in away mode. This allowed these 2 players to accumulate monster stacks by just calling the big blind each hand and watching the other players at their tables auto fold.

Another table had 2 players who were there and 8 who weren't. These 2 players worked out a deal so that they would take turns stealing the blinds of the away people.

Another table had a simular arangement between 3 players.

Then there was a table with 5 players that were actually there.

Then there was the table that I was seated at which had a whopping 6 players that were there.

Obviously I had no chance at the 4000$ in prize money for the top 8 finishers as the players at the other tables were able to just sit back and accumulate the blinds of players who did not show up. I was only able to build my starting stack from 1000 to 2700 by actually playing poker as I was unable to steal more than 200 worth of blinds from away players as I was seated in a very bad position relative to the away players at my table. Obviously my 2700 stack wasn't enough because when the away players fianlly blinded out and the tables started to combine I was moved to a table that had a 12000 stack a 6000 stack a 5000 stack and several 3000 and 4000 stacks. These players didn't actually get their stacks from beating live opponents, but by getting the blinds of people who were away.

I no longer see any point in being signed up under this snowball program thats monthly tournament winner will end up being whoever is lucky enough to be seated at a table full of away people.

[scrapperdog]

18 people showed up for a 4K freeroll where top 8 gets paid and you are complaining? This is embarassing. Would you make this post if you were lucky enough to get a good seat position? Somehow I doubt it. And now you say you are quitting site over this before the person has a chance to fix the problems with the tourney? Fantastic!

I think the problem here lies with Party and not the affiliate. I had tried to have a freeroll for our play money players to convert them to real money players and wanted to have one a month with 2000 new players each month. It seems Party has difficulty in communication between departments at times, and I just shelved the project out of frustration.

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The orginzation of this tournament was terrible. 57 people were preregistered and there was no sort of check in or anything to ensure that people were actually there. When the tournament started only 18 people of 57 registered people were actually playing.

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OMG, they didn't push back the start time to see if the other players showed up?! Crazy! You had a random shot at getting one of the easy tables and missed, so you needed to play great poker. With a freeroll, you are trying not to piss people off. So you don't want to give away the seat if they haven't checked in by a certain time. I am sure you have thought about this, so instead of pointing out what went wrong, try this: "How would you fix this?"

[morgant]

first, this is a golden opportunity at a 4k prizepool with little if any competition, cant believe you are complaining about that.

second, freerolls are very hard events to organize as promotions. getting 50% of the players to show up is damn near impossible. i had a few freerolls and after seeing the turnouts, i have permantly shelved them. just my experiences, however, if i was a player, this snowball event with a prize pool like that and only a few players sounds like a golden opportunity. you may want to reconsider your view.

if you want a tournament with competition, just signup for a regularly scheduled tournament.

[Sniper]

You are complaining about a 4K freeroll, where you had a 45% chance of cashing? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Its not a golden opportunity when Top 8 get paid and 2 people start with 10k in chips 2 start with 5k in chips and 3 start with 3.5k in chips while im stuck starting with 1k in chips. Want to explain to me how that makes me a 45% chance to cash?

[Jessica1]

Dear Vegetarian

As the others point out, the turn out is something we cannot control. Nor can we determine who sits where. This was the first month of the Snowball Scheme and 18 people for a $4k freeroll is pretty good odds.

Of course we will learn from any errors but running to the forums to complain is not the most constructive criticism you can give us. As we have always maintained, the Snowball Scheme is an evolving animal. We accept now that, whilst we will endeavour to make it as successful as possible, we will never be able to please all of the people all of the time, whether it's complaints like yours, those of late notice or complaints of people in the Far East for whom 4 am on a Monday is not the most conducive time for them to play Texas NL Hold'em.

The aim of this scheme is to build a large group of players who will benefit each month from such generous freerolls.

Now that Party have officially killed rakeback this is one of the few schemes that allows you to effectively get a chance at some form of rakeback as well as perhaps being entitled to rewards from the Party VIP team. It beats simply signing up with them direct anyhow.

If you wish to be removed from the scheme, simply email us and we will ask for you to be de-affiliatised (sounds like a 'Bushism'!).
But we would of course be happier if you stayed in and like KinkyKid suggests, send us some constructive criticism on how we can improve it.

Regards
RTR

(PS Thank you to the rest of you for your positive comments)

[scrapperdog]

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Its not a golden opportunity when Top 8 get paid and 2 people start with 10k in chips 2 start with 5k in chips and 3 start with 3.5k in chips while im stuck starting with 1k in chips. Want to explain to me how that makes me a 45% chance to cash?

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Fine then quit playing these 18 man 4K freerolls where 8 cash like you threatened to. BTW after this post here I doubt next time it is gonna be an 18 man tourny next month. My guess is that your whining about seat position just cost you a lot of EV.

[NSchandler]

I think what we can gather from this post is that it's impossible to please a vegetarian.

[MicroBob]

I previously didn't think this program was a very good idea.

After this thread I may more seriously consider sigining-up.

How does one sign up for this tournament?

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
Another table had 2 players who were there and 8 who weren't. These 2 players worked out a deal so that they would take turns stealing the blinds of the away people.

Another table had a simular arangement between 3 players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Party apparently conducted a tournament in which open collusion occurred on more than one table. Please don't say this is a victimless crime:

1. An agreement to evenly split the proceeds instead of having a random split based on normal competition is +EV for the colluders and -EV for everyone else. This is standard theory for MTTs with multiple prizes.

2. The collusion undoubtedly allowed hands to be played much faster. That's an unfair advantage over players who divided up the dead money through honest play. The colluders get to mop up their tables quickly and move onto other tables where dead money is still present.

3. Most important, open cheating makes a mockery of online poker.

The organizers have an obligation to find a way to clean this up.

[scrapperdog]

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The organizers have an obligation to find a way to clean this up.

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Yep I agree, but remember this was the first tourney they ran. SNAFU's like this are gonna happen. My solution would be that if you sign up to play and dont show that makes you inelligible for next months tourney. This would require more work from rtr to find out who did not show but would stop a lot of the no shows.

I finished 4th in that competition, netting $400. Very nice and quite unlucky to lose my stack to a steal with 75o when I had AJ in SB, then having to go all in pretty much next hand with T9s. Such is final table play.

But anyway... I was also on the OP's table - I assume you're who I think you are. And yeah, it was pretty bad this month with the short notice and then other players effectively having a free ride to the final table. I wasn't best pleased at the time, especially when I got to final table at the 2nd smallest stack.

However, never minding all that, here's some advice: if there's one thing I would have liked, it's a far flatter pay structure. Yes, I did well this month (YAY!) but then with a flatter pay structure more people will be rewarded for playing through the scheme, meaning more incentive for those who don't usually play tourneys and need to get far luckier than those used to such play. So if that's possible, I think a lot of people would be far happier.

[AAAA]

You raise some valid complaints, so don't think I am downplaying the importance of your comments. I am in no way associated with the people who ran this tourney, but it seems that their intent was to get money back to the players.

That being said, I remember when BetHoldem tried a similar tourney. The first week was a mess, but they fixed it right away. Your comments cause hard feelings and can actually be counterproductive to your own goals. Kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I understand you are frustrated, and do not feel that you had a fair chance. Do you understand my point that it might work better for you if you if you used a bit of honey, instead of vinegar? There are a few more cliches I can think of, but you probably get the idea.

Give them a chance to fix it instead of making a public complaint.

[Mempho]

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I previously didn't think this program was a very good idea.

After this thread I may more seriously consider sigining-up.

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[D.H.]

[ QUOTE ]
I previously didn't think this program was a very good idea.

After this thread I may more seriously consider sigining-up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I think it sounds OK, but I have some problems with it. It seems that there could be huge value in this for people who don't play very much if some high volume players sign up and generate lots of rake each month.

So if you want to attract the high volume players I think you would have to split it into several tournament with different qualifying criterions. Would this be possible, Jessica?

Also, on the website you mention WSOP packages as possible future prices. I don't see any reason to have tournament packages instead of cash prizes.

[Jessica1]

Thanks for the input guys

Again things will change as time goes on.

Higher volume players are supposed to get an additional kickback from Party directly through their VIP service. So the Snowball is just an extra perk instead of signing up directly.

As time goes on and we get more players and therefore a definite split between higher and smaller players we will be able to offer separate tournaments which reward a players input in to the scheme

We have mentioned to Party about preventing thoss that dont turn up from playing. We cannot as someone suggested ban them from the following month as you can never know the real reason they didnt turn up...family emergency etc...

Anyway all your posts are fantastically helpful towards helping us improve it....

And just so we pre-empt next month's posts...we probably wont get it 100% right this month either, but dammit we'll try....

Jess
RTR

[StellarWind]

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We have mentioned to Party about preventing thoss that dont turn up from playing. We cannot as someone suggested ban them from the following month as you can never know the real reason they didnt turn up...family emergency etc...

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At BetHoldem prequalified players must register shortly before gametime to play in the weekly high-volume player freeroll. That effectively limits seating to people who are actually playing. If the infamous Prima platform can support this feature it's not a lot to ask Party to keep up.

[One week recently they didn't do this for some reason and it was a mess similar to OP, but that's beside the point. It works well when they do it.]

I do not play in the BetHoldem freeroll for the money. I would be much better off at the limit ring tables because I'm a NL newbie. I participate for the fun and experience of playing against a good field without having to pay for the privilege. Any money I luck into is a bonus.

I'm sure a lot of other players view online freerolls the same way. Poker is supposed to be entertaining. Most players are losers and a few extra bucks of EV doesn't mean anything to a high-paid professional who is wasting his leisure time on a farce.

That's the real evil of the current format. Allowing large numbers on nonparticipants to be seated ruins the poker. Party is in the entertainment business. As soon as poker is only about money there will be no more poker.