Optimal Bet Size?

[Maulik]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero (t880)
UTG (t1520)
UTG+1 (t575)
MP1 (t550)
MP2 (t940)
CO (t565)
Button (t2330)
SB (t640)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls t50, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, Button calls t150, SB calls t150.

Flop: (t600) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Turn: (t600) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

River: (t600) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: t600

[KingDan]

If your question is what to do on the flop I generally bet all of it

[11t]

Do yourself a favor and raise 250 preflop and just push any none ace flop.

Push this flop.

i agree with the responses in general (although maybe not the execution). not too many good cards in SNG. just try to suck out as much cash as you. so bet as much as you think will get called (either on flop or F/T), but given SNG escalating blinds, i wouldn't worry at all that you're beaten (if you are, and assumes no ace on flop, then just join another SNG)

i too wonder about bet size. interesting subject as you want to get as much money from your opponent as possible without opening yourself up to the call or reraise being a "3 of a kind"

a technical question: when people say raise 250, does that include the 50 blind? is it "raise by" or "raise to"? i'm curious as to custom as i see that alot.

[Maulik]

I'm not concerned w/ PF, I get value for my callers. On any non-ace flop I'm committing myself for my chips sure, but I want the villain's to come along for the ride.

There aren't any transparent draws hence the "reasonable" bet not sure why it doesn't show the bet of t300.

[handsome]

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Do yourself a favor and raise 250 preflop and just push any none ace flop.

Push this flop.

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Ding ding ding.

[tewall]

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a technical question: when people say raise 250, does that include the 50 blind? is it "raise by" or "raise to"? i'm curious as to custom as i see that a lot.

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I would normally take it to mean call, and raise 250 more, but in this particular case from the context it seems clear to me it includes the 50 of the blinds, so it's a raise to 250.

[johnnybeef]

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Do yourself a favor and raise 250 preflop and just push any none ace flop.

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That is terrible.

[Maulik]

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Do yourself a favor and raise 250 preflop and just push any none ace flop.

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That is terrible.

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well beef go on and teach us.. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[ilya]

Preflop looks fine to me, might make it 250 but whatever. I would bet 350-400 on this flop and put the rest in on any turn except an Ace; if turn is an Ace I might check/call.
Betting all of it is also reasonable I think as long as you're often doing it with hands like 88/77 &amp; AK as well as sets &amp; overpair.

[johnnybeef]

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Do yourself a favor and raise 250 preflop and just push any none ace flop.

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That is terrible.

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well beef go on and teach us.. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

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You don't have a ton of chips. Raising it to 250 essentially commits you to the pot. A perfect example is that QQ hand you posted. Out of curiousity (11t), what is your plan if an Ace hits on the flop? Checking and folding is terrible as it leaves you an easy target to be bluffed at, and making a continuation bet of 400+ is essentially puting all of your stack in. Next time raise to t125-t175. that way you can make a cbet of 175-225 and still have at least t500 if you are raised. In response to the original hand, I would bet about 3/4 the pot as there is a straight draw out there, and get all of my chips in if raised.

[Maulik]

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Do yourself a favor and raise 250 preflop and just push any none ace flop.

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That is terrible.

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well beef go on and teach us.. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

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You don't have a ton of chips. Raising it to 250 essentially commits you to the pot. A perfect example is that QQ hand you posted. Out of curiousity (11t), what is your plan if an Ace hits on the flop? Checking and folding is terrible as it leaves you an easy target to be bluffed at, and making a continuation bet of 400+ is essentially puting all of your stack in. Next time raise to t125-t175. that way you can make a cbet of 175-225 and still have at least t500 if you are raised. In response to the original hand, I would bet about 3/4 the pot as there is a straight draw out there, and get all of my chips in if raised.

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you bring up some great points beef.

do you think the merits of raising to t150ish and having a much smaller c-bet over the long run have me losing lots of EV?

[johnnybeef]

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do you think the merits of raising to t150ish and having a much smaller c-bet over the long run have me losing lots of EV?

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Well, think about it. Is it more ev to have t300 or t500 when you double up?

[tigerite]

I'm just pushing that flop, because it makes the hand easier to play really, and anyone who is calling for t300 will call for t500, without a doubt.

[bennies]

actually you should have raised to 217 chips.

but dont worry to much, nobody's perfect, this raise should still be +ev...

[curtains]

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Do yourself a favor and raise 250 preflop and just push any none ace flop.

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That is terrible.

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I wouldn't raise that much...Probably Id make it about 175-200...you really want a call and even if an ace flops, you have to committ all your chips. On the flop...I'd bet about 300 or just move allin. It depends on your opponent and whether you feel they will be more likely to pay you off based on an allin or a smallish bet. In a $200 I'd just move allin in this spot

[mlagoo]

i think this hand looks good.

i think raising to 125-175 preflop is really a mistake here. actually, 175 isnt really bad. 125 is. there are 150 chips in the pot when it gets to you in the BB. so the button is going to have to call 75 chips into a 225 chip pot, then the SB is going to have to call 75 chips into a 300 chip pot. what are they folding here?

maybe what im saying is that i think its wrong to play KK here, preflop at least, differently than you would play, i dunno, 99 or AT. or so i had been taught by those wiser than me.

i dunno, its late. i just finished my civ pro outline. go me.

I really like a smallish bet on the flop (roughly 350). I'm getting the rest in on the turn, no matter what hits (too often JT comes along to fold to an A with that few chips). I really want an A high to come along for the ride. Keep 'em playing with only 3-5 outs. Even AT (best case for villian) isn't getting good enough implied odds to call a bet that size. Here, AT is only 22% to win by the river. Plus, a big bet might fold a weak ten, but a weak bet probably gets called/re-raised.

Will