The worst move i have ever made?

[billygoat]

Hi, all feedback on the following hand that happened to me tonight would be appreciated. A live PLHE comp 80 runners down to last 15, top 10 paid all money in top 3. Prior to the hand i have 70K in chips second chip leader on SB has about 67K.

UTG with AA i raise the pot 3000 with 7500. folded to SB who flat calls.

Flop 2s 3s 5d. SB checks, i bet the pot 24K and SB re-raises all in for another 32K. After about 5 mins i do the unthinkable and pass. My logic, if i can call it logic was that he had either hit trips or a rag two pair, as i had previously seen him call a raise on his blind with 5 2 off and crack KK. After i passed he said he had QQ which made sense on reflection because if he put me on a big ace then he wants to see the flop first and then bet if it is a rag flop. it was the check raise that duped me, should it have?

Questions then are, how bad a pass is this? and why should i have called? (this may sound stupid but i want to educate myself as to the most sound reasoning behind the obvious call even though i passed)


thanks in advance, the imbecile

[Ignatius]

Probably yes! There's no way in hell you can fold here when getting better than 3:1 on the call. Even if he would flash a raggy twopair like 52, you have an easy call as you're only a 3:5 dog. Against a set, a call is only slightly negative (EV -T6.600). The only hand you're really in trouble against is exactly A4 (very unlikely).
.
But these considerations are moot, anyway: Even if he did make moves with trash hands before, his most plausible hand here is still an overpair, or some flush/str8/overcard-draw combination (maybe along with a pair), so you should be more than happy to call.

[nicky g]

Isn't he in bigger trouble against 64?

[Ignatius]

You're right, my mistake. Still, no reason to even think about folding those aces here.

[punkass]

First off, if I don't know the guy, I don't trust a thing he says. He may say he had QQ; he may have had 56, 33, or QT. I think flat calling with QQ is weak play IMO, although in this case, he saved himself from getting kicked out with it.

As for your question of worst move, I don't think so. It's a bad move I think nonetheless. I probably would've talked myself into calling him. You're huge dog to only the made straights, and probably a slight dog to good draws like 56s. If he has two pair, then he played trash to your big raise PF. You don't say anything about the overall character of the SB, so I will assume since he's gotten this far, he's not a complete dufus. It looks like an overpair, maybe 88 or so, or a complete bluff into what he thinks is AK.

I hope it worked out in the tournament. That pot would've certainly helped.

[Copernicus]

Calling requires some thought, but eventually seems to be the right move. While A4 is mathematically unlikely, it is far from an uncommon call by a big stack in Limit or PL.
While 46 would be more trouble, that is a much more unlikely hand in this scenario. I would be very nervous about a set or made straight, and can see myself folding vs a player I have a lot of respect for, but most of the time I would reluctantly call.

[jon_1van]

Is the following reasoning correct? I vote for a fold. Then I argue the other way and vote call. Which set of logic is likely to come out on top?

An argument for fold - You made a pot raise preflop from UTG. It did not get reraised prior to getting around to the SB. The SB has to call 2BB and 1 SB to play.

Because the SB didn't reraise I believe you can eliminate the possibility of a premium hand.

I think it makes sense for the SB to call, and see a flop with low pairs and suited connectors/one-gappers. The SB has cheaply (kinda) gotten himself into a position where he can very clearly know whether he is far ahead or far behind.
If high cards come he folds to any pressure. If low cards come he has gotten help and he will know you haven't gotten help.

I also believe he can safely assume you will bet after he checks and a flop came rags.

You have already said this player likes to play risky/high implied odds hands. You should give him credit for the hand.

Argument for call.
1. - you aren't a big dog to a two pair.
2. You can't always worry about the other guy having the nuts, 46 is highly unlikely.
3. A4 probably wouldn't call because we can't really back up his Ace. He would have to fold a lone ace to any pressure you applied. Knowing this, his only hope lies in a 5 high straight or a flush (if suited).
4. His raise probably represents an attempt to fold an AK/AQ.
5. If you start playing so passively you can look forward to the rest of the table bluffing you left and right.

So call it down.