easy value bet on the end or check to induce bluff? 30 bellagio

incredibly good loose passive 30 at bellagio thurs. night.

4 limps. i call in sb with 99. 6 to the flop

flop: AA4 with 2 spade.

I check EP player bets, button(the only other aggressive player at the table who plays moderately well though tends to spew at time on the turn) raises, I 3-bet and get heads up.

Turn: offsuit 7.

I bet, call.

River: offsuit 6.

easy value bet or check to induce a bluff?

[newhizzle]

im not sure what the button could possibly have other than a missed flush draw that you beat here, i think its a check

what do you put him on?

i think the mostly likely hand is a smaller pocket pair. I think its unlikely that she raises to knock people out with a good draw.

the problem with the likely hands 55-88 is that 2 of the combos flopped sets.

[psyduck]

raise PF. bet/3bet flop if aggro button is the one who raises. bet turn and check/call river

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
raise PF. bet/3bet flop if aggro button is the one who raises. bet turn and check/call river

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this completely.

I like check/call river because I don't want to call a raise here.

I think he bluffs/value bets a worse hand enough to make checking and calling better than betting. Because of the raise factor on your value bet.

blake

[bicyclekick]

The only thing I like about your hand is the limp pre-flop.

Let it go. 6 people to the flop. One of them probably has an ace. Everyonce in awhile they wont, but you're usually just spewing. You're play isn't AWFUL bad but when it's been bet and raised it's time to let it go.

If I played it the way you did and got that far I'd check/call the river for sure.

[The Truth]

It is hard for me to believe that we don't have enough equity to bump this one preflop. Can we get some elaboration on the no raise preflop ideas.
Not to mention positive benefits of looking LAG.

I agree that the flop is debateable. However, when action gets to us, there is a bet from some dude, an aggressive player with a habit of spewing has raised, and bb is left to act.

With a good read on EP that a lead means no ace, I think 3 betting is best. With no read, it is close.

[lil']

[ QUOTE ]
incredibly good loose passive 30 at bellagio thurs. night.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a loose passive game? Then fold the flop.

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
check to induce a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this part. It makes it sound like you are sure you have the hand won (which based on the title I'm guessing you did win)

If the Button has a flush draw he shouldn't be raising here. (Especially if he plays 'moderately well')
I wouldn't expect him to being playing any 4 here either (except 44).

The only thing that makes sense is an ace.
You should fold the flop. IMO

[jayheaps]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
check to induce a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this part. It makes it sound like you are sure you have the hand won (which based on the title I'm guessing you did win)

If the Button has a flush draw he shouldn't be raising here. (Especially if he plays 'moderately well')
I wouldn't expect him to being playing any 4 here either (except 44).

The only thing that makes sense is an ace.
You should fold the flop. IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree. That is why i put her on a pocket pair. problem is 1/2 of the likely pocket pairs she might have involve a set. Given the way the hand played out I was 99% that I was ahead on the turn.

[The Truth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
check to induce a bluff?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get this part. It makes it sound like you are sure you have the hand won (which based on the title I'm guessing you did win)

If the Button has a flush draw he shouldn't be raising here. (Especially if he plays 'moderately well')
I wouldn't expect him to being playing any 4 here either (except 44).

The only thing that makes sense is an ace.
You should fold the flop. IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree. That is why i put her on a pocket pair. problem is 1/2 of the likely pocket pairs she might have involve a set. Given the way the hand played out I was 99% that I was ahead on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you posted the hand with a gimmick account. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

blake

[La Brujita]

I usually just raise here for value preflop. What do you think makes limping superior?

[DcifrThs]

preflop: perfect.

flop: fold. passive game, everybody limped, you dont have an ace, you have no reason to suspect that you are ahead. further, you are out of posisiton and haven't even reached teh big streets yet. fold.

turn, given you didn't fold on the flop, id say thats just about the only thing you could do. what do you do if she raises you? do you still think you're ahead?

river: check. if you're sure enough you're ahead then call getting 9:1.

Barron

[newhizzle]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually just raise here for value preflop. What do you think makes limping superior?

[/ QUOTE ]

i actually think preflop is close, but i like the check, im really not sure what our equity edge is against their possible ranges, but i dont think its too much against all these limpers

by sacrificing a minor(i think) edge preflop we have the post-flop advantage of keeping the pot small, making it unprofitable for overs and weak draws to draw should we hit a favorible flop, also not tying us to the pot if we dont

BK, I am pretty sure that the check-3bet on the flop was the right play. here's why.

By the time the betting got to me, 2 players had already been knocked out. I just had to worry about the BB EP bettor and raiser. I know the EP better doesn't have an ace because most players in this game are so ABC that they auto check-call this on the flop. My only concern is the BB. (obviously if he calls 3 cold I have a problem and would shut down the turn.)

Given this, why not try to get heads up against the aggressive player?

I agree that in a 80+ game where good players tend to fast play alot more hands, this is an easier check-fold

[chaosuk]

I'm not sure that I have a feel for the right play here. If my image was lag enough I'd prlly just keep going on the river.

I would add though, that you can easily 'bet for value' (as perhaps you would here) believing that you're very likely losing, or indeed check to induce a bluff, while believing the 'induced bet' is not likely to be a bluff.

[jayheaps]

I checked, villian thought for a bit and checked behind. I took the pot and vilian showed the 3 of spades.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
I checked, villian thought for a bit and checked behind. I took the pot and vilian showed the 3 of spades.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you posting under 2 different names?

Barron

because for some reason, i couldn't post with this account yesterday so I used a friends.

[bobbyi]

After you check-threebet the flop and lead the turn, I don't think anyone expects you to fold to a bet when you check the river. It looks like you are going to check and call. Even if he missed, there's a good chance he won't think it's worth bluffing if you check.

[bender]

I am surprised that most people like checking this river. As bobbyi pointed, I don't think there is much value in inducing a bluff in this hand as it seems pretty umlikely that you would check fold from his point of view.
Additionally, I think virtually hands all hands that are beating you are correctly value betting against you when you check so there is no benefit to checking there. I'm betting.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
After you check-threebet the flop and lead the turn, I don't think anyone expects you to fold to a bet when you check the river. It looks like you are going to check and call. Even if he missed, there's a good chance he won't think it's worth bluffing if you check.

[/ QUOTE ]

so we've established that checking wont induce a bluff. but will betting get a call from a worse hand >50% of the time? given this action id say absolutely not. so which of the two has more value? a negative valued bet, or a 0 valued check/fold (or like i said earilier, check call if its 9:1 this guys nuts or your passive read is wrong)

Barron

[chaosuk]

Check folding just isn't going to happen here (esp against a lag), which is why I'd advocate betting. Bad river calls are commonplace and are, of sorts, insurance calls, for future hands. I'd rather bet in this spot, than check and 'hope' (forlornly) thatI'd fold to a bet.

chaos

[piggity]

Hey moneyshot,

What happened here is that you miraculously won the hand so you assumed you played it well. We've all done this. The correct play was to fold on the flop, as advocated by some very good posters. Don't let some of these guys' horrible spelling and grammar fool you -- they really know how to play limit hold'em.