400 games on party very tough?

[Atropos]

Hey folks,
I just moved up to the 400$ NL 6-max games on party. Over my first 800 Hands 1-2 tabling, I got 16BB/100 hands /images/graemlins/smile.gif But I not only know that this is not sustainable, it also seems to me that I'm outclassed in these games, and if I dont get better I would probably be even the fish in most games.

Why is that? Something seems to be different in comparison to 200NL. I noticed the following things:
a) People are tighter preflop in general, there are less fish.
b) Everyone is much more aggressive!
c) It seems to me that there are tons of delayed bluffs, people calling and raising with nothing on the early streets whenever I have AK and flop only overcards /images/graemlins/frown.gif
d) Whenever I have a good hand - they fold. Whenever I'm weak - they raise. Whenever I'm beat - I'm paying them off --> Sucks

Here is a hand where cant understand the action at all:
Sat down 20 minutes ago. UTG raiser was quite tight, 24 VPIP and only 4% PFR! I had a note on him that he was able to fold hands, but I saw him overplay QQ once. Thats why I called his raise, wanted to flop two pair / trips and break him.



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG ($456.60)
MP ($393.20)
CO ($830.40)
Hero ($425)
SB ($239.90)
BB ($666.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $2.
[color=#CC3333]UTG raises to $12</font>, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, Hero calls $12, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($30) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]UTG bets $22</font>, Hero calls $22.

Turn: ($74) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]UTG bets $55</font>, Hero calls $55.

River: ($184) K/images/graemlins/club.gif [color=#0000FF](2 players)</font>
UTG checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets $120</font>, UTG calls $120.

Final Pot: $424

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
UTG has Jh Td (one pair, tens).
Hero has Tc 9h (one pair, tens).
Outcome: UTG wins $424. </font>


Maybe there are better lines to play this hand. But the result is still crazy: He called me with JTo! How?
Flush got there on the river, AK has sucked out on him, he is still behind to any overpair / set / two pair, anything I could have. Keep in mind he is not a fish, he seemed to be a tight, aggressive player, even after this hand!

So is maybe 400 NL the level where you have to make tough calls and the easy decisions start to disappear? Not at all comparable to lowlimit poker or the 200 games?

[emil3000]

His call sucks, I don't really like your play either.

I don't know about 200NL, never played it, but it seems that my money comes from major meltdowns by various people and bad calldowns by calling stations. Some maniacs make you go in with one pair, I guess that's sorta tough, but they gotta exist in the 200 too? I don't know, I very rarely see any good players at the 400 tables.

[Raven]

I think you played this hand bad from start to finish.

[Atropos]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played this hand bad from start to finish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I didnt really like it either /images/graemlins/smile.gif However it would be cool if you could explain some ways I could play this better. I see:

Preflop: On the button I often make calls like these against raisers, would be a whole debate.

Flop: Folding is impossible, he could have AK. Should I raise here? Should I wait for turn?

Turn: OK, I was sure now he had something, 55$ is too big a continuation bet.

River: Bet-Bet-Check means he cant have the flush. Maybe I should incorporate some river push actions into my game for these situations /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[emil3000]

Fold the turn seems best.

[soah]

Your plan was to outflop him and take his stack. On the turn it is clear your hand is no good, but you continue with your hand and then try to bluff him. This is just spewing.

[Raven]

The call preflop was bad to me agaisnt a tight early raiser, T9o is crap. On the flop its ok. On the turn you should fold. On the river I dont see a worst hand calling that bet and he said to you he had something when he betted the turn, so he probably wont fold.

[emil3000]

Ah yeah, fold preflop, but we shouldn't go into that.

[Woolygimp]

Easy PF fold. Assuming you wanted to play this hand (this should've been folded on every available street) raise his bet on the flop. IF he calls your raise and fires again on the turn its an easy fold. Most likely you'll get to see a free showdown at the very least unless he holds a very strong hand.

[Atropos]

Ok thx for your response everybody, it seems I posted a rather worthless hand /images/graemlins/wink.gif It's probably too weak to call preflop and all the other errors result from that. Because IF i call T9o, I cant fold this flop against flop bet...

What would be the best line if I had JTs here (no flushdraw). Reraise 3x flop bet, check behind on turn, call river bet according to my read?

[soah]

If he calls a flop raise I'd probably be done with the hand barring improvement. No one is calling a flop raise out of position with hopes of running a delayed bluff.

[Niwa]

calm down. play a little and learn how small a difference it really is.

[Gugel]

1. Don't post results.
2. Don't call a preflop raise with T9os.
3. If you do call, hit your T, and think you're ahead, reraise him to $80 on the flop. Check/fold the turn. If UTG checks the turn, and checks the river when a club(a scare card) hits, bet 3/4 of the pot.

[rwanger]

Also...without commenting on other streets, your play on the river is bizarre. I'm a bit surprised he ended up having JT, and calling. However, you seem to bet only because he checked. I don't know if you think you're bluffing, or value betting, but it ends up being neither. He's probably not going to fold a better hand (if I were him and had AT, I would definately call), and he isn't going to call with a weaker hand.

For this reason, making a sizable bet on the river in NL with second pair seems to always be a large mistake.

I think the preflop call is good for exactly the reasons given. T9 is not a bad hand at all with position in a heads up pot. I probably would have been more aggressive with it—i.e., raise flop—but I don't think the call on the flop is terrible.

The turn call.. is terrible, as is the river bet. But, I think assuming that calling a raise preflop with position is facially obviously terrible is weak-tight nonsense.