KK: lots of action, monotone flop

[gopnik]

Have not seen BB before but his stats after 32 hands are: 22/9.4/0.71


I think I did OK here. Anybody would put additional bets anywhere? To c/r this flop he either had to have a monster or a huge draw, so, I slowed down.
After the turn check I was fairly sure I was against an A /images/graemlins/club.gif and he c/r the flop for value against 3 people.

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (12.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB.

Whether or not it's right, I would 3 bet the flop and lead out at the turn without hesitation. I think you're good too often to let anyone take a free card to the big flush. If I got raised on the turn, I would call down.

I raise the river.

This is why. What hands can he 3-bet preflop and raise you on that flop with? AA, QQ, JJ, and 99. What about AKs and AQs? AQoff suite is possible but he don't have AKs in spades that for sure and neither is AQs. Will he cold call with AQoff? Probably yes with his stats. Which leaves us at AA, QQ, JJ and 99. He is checking the turn even though you guys only cold called his raise on the flop. This is making me go hmm,,, if he had QQ he would bet, probably same with 99 but if he had AA with the club he would bet too. I am pretty sure he don't have the A of clubs or he think his J of clubs is good enough to raise with.

I raise and cap being a happy man.

What about him 3 betting pre flop with AK offsuit, with the A of clubs?

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What about him 3 betting pre flop with AK offsuit, with the A of clubs?

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I go with his stats and say he would only call the flop raise with that hand here.

[gopnik]

with what hand would you 3-bet preflop, c/r the flop and check a none club turn?
It's got to have an Aclubs in it. I see only 2 hands: AA/images/graemlins/club.gif or A /images/graemlins/club.gif K play that way. QQ would have bet this turn.
Since there is more chance he's got AK, I think I should have bet this turn.

[DCWildcat]

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What about him 3 betting pre flop with AK offsuit, with the A of clubs?

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I go with his stats and say he would only call the flop raise with that hand here.

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22 VP$IP always 3-bet AK.

Any high ace w/ a club takes villain's exact line.

[shant]

3-bet the flop. Bet the turn.

[MN_Mime]

*grunch*

If I'm understanding your post, he's an unknown so the stats you later accumulated only serve to justify your play.

Flop: Auto 3-bet. He doesn't have AcKc or AcQc, so...

Behind:
3 ways to make AA against which you do not have a flush redraw (2 outs).
3 ways to make AA against which you have a flush redraw (11 outs).
3 ways to make QQ against which you have a flush redraw (11 outs) but have to defend against a FH on most.

... and you're pretty much ahead of everything else imagineable

AK - 8 ways - 8 out redraw against you 4 ways.
KK - 1 way - can't lose to this.
JJ - 6 ways (2 outs)
TT - 6 ways (2 outs)

so you need to bet for value. Moreover, you've got to do something about the calling stations... if they are hanging around for flush draws (Ac notwithstanding), then there are fewer clubs out there for Villain to catch so your Ks might hold up.

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As played:

Turn: Lead again with the blank and test for resistance from AcKo now that he's a bigger dog.

River: You're really only afraid of the MUB here, but if you've still got the callers, you've got to be concerned that someone is still there with a JTs/AJs/ATs of trump and you want to show this hand down. I think betting gets you into trouble here if you're not headsup. I think this is check/call; just not sure what to do if it comes back 2 bets &lt;frown&gt;.

[kiemo]

You should be thrown in the hoosegow for checking through that turn!

[gopnik]

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You should be thrown in the hoosegow for checking through that turn!

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I kind of agree. I pretty much had no read on the guy and was affraid of another c/r on the turn.

So he showed AK with the Ace of clubs then?

[@bsolute_luck]

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3-bet the flop. Bet the turn.

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i do this all day.

[HouseCalls]

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3-bet the flop. Bet the turn.

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i do this all day.

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I understand this play in terms of counteracting an attempted free card play here but I have a question for those of you who do this a lot. We can make the free card expensive by doing this but (given all the raising before we 3 bet the flop) the player on the draw will still be getting odds to stick with his draw all the way to the river. Since we can't put him in a position to "make a mistake" are we doing this to build the pot for ourselves if the K's hold up? If not should we skip the re-raise/ lead out play once the pot gets this big??

[gopnik]

he had AA/images/graemlins/club.gif and both us should be banned from playing poker for checking the turn (especially him)

[gopnik]

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3-bet the flop. Bet the turn.

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i do this all day.

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would you do it HU? I think more often than not we are behind the villain. (we are behind AA /images/graemlins/club.gif, QQ, and A/images/graemlins/club.gifK has 11 outs against us)

[MN_Mime]

WTF?

Where in the world did I suggest that you check the turn?!

[MN_Mime]

Well, that's unfortunate but the play is still correct given that you did not have the read at the time.

It's results-oriented to look back at it as a mistake.

[MN_Mime]

Against a sane opponent, there are 9 hands of which you're afraid (6 give you live redraws) and 21 hands against which you're in great shape.

Unless he shows you the AAc, you've got to 3-bet this for value.