$10/20 stud high fiasco

[Andy B]

This was on Party, but seat 1 is someone I recognize as a half-decent regular on Stars. The other guy is unknown to me.

7 Card Stud High ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (converter (http://j.1asphost.com/greenage))
3rd Street - (0.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___completes___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif___raises___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 5/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif___brings-in___folds

4th Street - (9.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks___calls
Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets

5th Street - (6.40 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif___checks___calls
Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___bets

6th Street - (9.40 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets
Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif___checks___calls

River - (12.40 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif xx___bets
Seat 3: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif xx___calls
Hero: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___checks___calls

Total pot: (15.40 BB)

[Roland]

I don't get the 6th street check.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
This was on Party, but seat 1 is someone I recognize as a half-decent regular on Stars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does his name start with an "h"? If so, you should try to put him on tilt /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Andy B]

Do you think I have the best hand? Do you think I am getting anyone to fold?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

i don't really know how to feel about this hand. seat 1 seems to have jacks up at worst or a straight with the case Q starting QJJ or something. if seat 1 doesn't have the case Q then i think seat 3 started with it (or burried kings). i don't think seat 3 can (or should) call the river with just one pair and that poses problems for your hand. i'd probably call but i don't know if i'd feel good about it.

[TheSalche]

Tough spot here, my guess is that seat 1 has J /images/graemlins/club.gifKx in the hole, or at least J /images/graemlins/club.gif. Seems like seat 3 doesn't have KK or AA in the hole (if he did, played it weakly). I think seat 3's most likely hand is some sort of straight draw with a Q, that made two pair on the river. I'm tempted to say get out on 6th, because you're probably drawing to one of the 3 aces in the deck, and that might not be good in seat 1 gets a flush or seat 3 gets a straight.

[blumpkin22]

Andy- this is a tough but correct fold on 3rd.

-The 3rd St. Police

[mscags]

[ QUOTE ]
Andy- this is a tough but correct fold on 3rd.

-The 3rd St. Police

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[benwood]

Blumpkin:Nice fold on 3rd.I didn't even consider it.When seat 3 raises seat 1's completion,he represents a hand better than J's.He may not have it all the time(3 flush, etc),butyour equity against the 2 of them is not great,& you will never be able to bet your hand with confidence.giving you reverse implied odds.

[Ray Zee]

ante is cheap. fold on third unless they play way too loose.

4th maybe check. they both caught good.

5th defintely check. and you could get away from the hand if you had checked on 4th. if someone bets.

since you got to 6th. its all player dependent on what to do here. even a raise to knock out kings up from the first player and hope the other guy has smaller two pair. of course you would look like a fool when they show a flush and a straight. but it may be the best play.

[mscags]

Ray,
Any chance you want to play in our little tourney on Sun? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Michael Emery]

[ QUOTE ]
ante is cheap. fold on third unless they play way too loose.

4th maybe check. they both caught good.

5th defintely check. and you could get away from the hand if you had checked on 4th. if someone bets.

since you got to 6th. its all player dependent on what to do here. even a raise to knock out kings up from the first player and hope the other guy has smaller two pair. of course you would look like a fool when they show a flush and a straight. but it may be the best play.


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif I'm confused. Five handed on party I'm not folding this. Maybe if I knew the players in question I could, but overall this needs to get 3-bet in this game. We simply have a "half decent regular" raising into duplicate queens and two low cards, then an unknown raising. I play everything the same way as Andy. Hell, I might have even bet sixth. Ray, who would be folding kings up here for a raise on sixth? I would estimate that might just work 0% of the time.

Mike Emery

[frappeboy]

Andy, I play it pretty much the same way. Folding 3rd in this spot is insane.

[djr]

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
Andy- this is a tough but correct fold on 3rd.

-The 3rd St. Police



Why?


[/ QUOTE ]

1. there was a raise and reraise before hero
2. the dead queen
3. small pot

[blumpkin22]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Andy- this is a tough but correct fold on 3rd.

-The 3rd St. Police

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you hoping these people are raising with? I realize it's 5-handed, but still. Even if the J has a pair of jacks, and the Q has a 3-flush, your equity still isn't that much about average. If you both have queens or one of them has a big pair in the hole, you are have an equity deficit. Basically, best-case scenario isn't all that great and worst-case scenario sucks. As Ray mentioned, in this low-ante structure, this hand should be mucked on third street without much further thought.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think I have the best hand? Do you think I am getting anyone to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]


I think it’s more likely you have the best hand then it was on 5th, for instance.
The only way that 9c helped seat 1 is if he has the case 9, the case queens or two of the six remaining clubs in the hole. He should have, and probably would have, raised you with kings up on 5th or with jacks up on 4th. Thus, I think you are ahead of him most of the time.
The 7h seat 3 just caught doesn’t look that scary either. It is unlikely that he has a flush, since you have the Qh.
Also, you have seat 3 out-kicked now.
So I think you should bet for value here.

Btw, I agree with blumpkin and Ray that this should be folded on 3rd.

[Ray Zee]

since you got to 6th. its all player dependent on what to do here. on the river even a raise to knock out kings up from the first player and hope the other guy has smaller two pair. of course you would look like a fool when they show a flush and a straight. but it may be the best play.

the last paragraph of my above post should be changed to reflect that i meant to knock out kings up on the river not sixth street. sorry that i didnt proof read it first..

[vintage_sara]

The part I hate most about your hand is the fact that your kicker is so low and its not suited. You are likely facing queens on 3rd with a higher kicker. if you can't fold on third comfortably then folding 5th I think is a good option as fifth your hand is getting significantly worse, if the reraiser has queens and now seat 1 had a king...It's a tough spot but I might fold fifth. I definitely do not three bet this hand on 3rd and might even fold it. I want to manage the pot size if I think I need to call two bets cold and find a way to get it heads up with the other "queens" at a later street if it becomes possible or make my next decision by fifth.

In other words, if I think I can't get away from the hand on 3rd I smooth call two bets cold. Let the queens lead fourth and decide whether to pop it on fifth if the queens lead again, making it most expensive for the "j" two call two bets cold and keeping the spot size smaller.