Hand I dont know what to do with

Hero has 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif in SB.

PRE-FLOP
villain 1 calls $4, fold, fold, villain 2 calls $4, fold, fold, villain 3 calls $4, fold, Hero calls $2, villain 4 checks.

FLOP: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif,3 /images/graemlins/club.gif,Q /images/graemlins/club.gif
Hero bets $16, Villain 1 calls $16, Villian 2 folds, villain 3 calls $16, villain 4 calls $16.

turn: J /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero bets $80, Villain 1 calls $80, Villain 3 calls $80, Villain 4 calls $80.

RIVER: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Hero?

[FlyingStart]

Assuming 100BB stacks you should have 400$. The pot on the river is 400$ and you have about 300$ left. At first I thought shove since you aren't getting away and you want to extract value from any king with a kicker that does not pair with the board. However this could very well be a bigger full house and you have almost a PSB left. I think I could lay it down to more action (after a river check), but it depends alot on the competition.

[emil3000]

No way they are full here. Two pair or set would have to raise this turn. I value push and get called by two lone kings.

[FlyingStart]

No way? dont you think that's a little extreme? I know anyone on this board would raise with two pair when there are straight and flushdraws, but many others do not. Their reasons may vary from "Yes! Two pair, I hold the nuts, let them keep betting" to "I have two pair but there are draws there, I want to wait and see if the draw hits before I commit more chips, also someone might have me beat so I don't want to raise".

If we give villain credit for raising flop or turn with two pair, shouldn't we also give him credit for not limping trashkings, but more likely KQ/KJ?

[Niwa]

Ok, lets recap.

Flopplay: You bet and they called. This looks like what?
KJ/KT/flushdraw/JT/ATs. At least one weak made hand and LOTS of drawing hands.

Turnplay: You pot it again and only draw that got there was AT/T9 but you didnt get re-raised.

River: You fill up man! You should be pretty confident you have the best hand right now and the thing on your mind should be trying to extract value from the trips.

I dont bet all-in since all the players have $300 left in their stacks. I would bet around $100 and expect to get called by a king.

[FlyingStart]

If you are villain 4 in this hand and you hold KJ, what would you do on the turn after the action before you is bet pot, call, call?

Niwa, you were pretty right on.

I checked and the others checked aswell. All mucked and I checked the hand history. KT, JT and flushdraw.

[emil3000]

No surprises there, you lost lots of value.

[Niwa]

what if villain 1 held KJ?

Im just mention all the possibilities and yes KJ seems to be the most unlikely in this hand after turnplay.

[Big_Jim]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet around $100 and expect to get called by a king.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can get way more value out of a K than $100.

Pot is ~$400 on the river.

I would probably just push, here, and expect to get called by any K.

Edit: Is your plan to bet $100 and fold to a raise? I suck at folding full houses for 3:1 on my money...

[xorbie]

I would not be so happy with my hand on this river in a limped pot, its unlikely anyone has AK so you're banking on KT and a flushdraw.

oh Im stupid. Forgot to mention the table was very strange.

They called alot on flop and turn but on river all of them seemed to shut down without a monster. A few hands earlier I had the nuts and got cold called by the other straight. So going all-in for value didnt seem like an option.

[Big_Jim]

Given this information... I bet $200, and call a raise.

(I'm even worse at folding full houses for 8:1...)

[FlyingStart]

If villain1 holds KJ he wins the hand.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway nice hand, apparently it was correct to bet. WFIW KT is the only reasonable hand that will pay you off IMO, and I still think that villain played it badly on all streets (On the flop TP doesn't look good and on the turn a one-card OSED on a twoflushbord ain't exacty great). Other than that there are the draws, which will not pay you off ofcourse, and KJ/KQ.

If the table is passive without much bluffing I am either betting or checkfolding. If there are some bluffhappy villains I might checkcall

[Niwa]

$100 was a little on the small side and in retrospect if they were calling with KT all the way they could call a bigger bet than $100 on river when they improved.

[FlyingStart]

I definitely aggree with this, if he called flop and turn with a lone king, he is calling a river push too.. I don't see any reason to bet something smaller

[Niwa]

I think my judgement is affected by running bad. Im dying for value /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Does he really need to get 1:5 on his money? answer: no.