KJs -- Tell me how badly I misplayed this hand

[PokerSlut]

This hand happened in my second orbit, so I had no solid reads on either player except that they had both played most of their hands so far. This is $0.50/$1 so I usually make the assumption that players are very loose until proven otherwise.

Party Poker (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises,MP calls,<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB raises, Hero calls, MP raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

When MP raised after cold-calling my previous raise, I was quite confused. I cannot think of any hands that would make sense for that action.

Flop: (12.5 small bets)
8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero raises, MP raises, BB raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (12.25 big bets) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero calls, MP raises, BB raises, Hero calls, MP raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (24.25 big bets) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero raises, MP calls, BB raises, Hero raises, MP calls, BB calls.

Final Pot:

[Eeegah]

(Edit: here's my take before I realize you have a flush draw /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Hm. By the time it's 2 back to you on the turn it looks like they'll be capping every street. You're looking then at 7 bets to win 36. Are we ahead one time in six or so?

MP looks like he's raising because it's fun, and I barely give him credit for squat. I'm pretty sure BB either has you outkicked or is packing AA, and I don't think you're good one in six here. Looks like a fold on the turn, but that's hard to do in the hand /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Jaran]

Can't fold the turn...Frushdraw

-Jaran

[Eeegah]

D'oh, missed that.

In that case, standard and nice hand.

[shant]

Aside from raising preflop, I don't see anything else you can do differently.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Aside from raising preflop, I don't see anything else you can do differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that you shouldn't be raising KJs preflop...it's just something you could have done differently.

[ajm36]

From UTG and UTG+1, I usually limp this. I would fold when it is 2 back to me on the flop. The LRR is probably AKs or AA-QQ. Since you made it to the turn, everything else is fine.

[ QUOTE ]
From UTG and UTG+1, I usually limp this. I would fold when it is 2 back to me on the flop. The LRR is probably AKs or AA-QQ. Since you made it to the turn, everything else is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]


The wierd thing is it's not a LRR it's a cold call RR which usually means they have crap to me.

[Schwartzy61]

I don't raise this preflop, seems rather marginal raising this from UTG unless a lot of UTG raises have been getting too much respect.

The rest looks OK to me. After you get to the turn you really have no other option but to call repeatedly with the flush draw...

[PokerSlut]

MP shows K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for turned two pair.

BB shows 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for high card ace. And he called 2 bets to the cap on the river with it.

After seeing what BB was holding this hand, I spent the rest of his stack isolating him any time I had a marginal-or-better hand.

[PokerSlut]

You don't raise KJs preflop from EP? I think it is ahead most of the time in a loose game.

What is your minimum hand to raise UTG?

[afk]

I haven't played full ring in a long time, but I used to limp KJs from UTG, though I don't really have too much of a problem raising it either. I think the rest of the hand is fine.

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand happened in my second orbit, so I had no solid reads on either player except that they had both played most of their hands so far. This is $0.50/$1 so I usually make the assumption that players are very loose until proven otherwise.

Party Poker (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises,MP calls,<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, BB raises, Hero calls, MP raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

When MP raised after cold-calling my previous raise, I was quite confused. I cannot think of any hands that would make sense for that action.

Flop: (12.5 small bets)
8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero raises, MP raises, BB raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (12.25 big bets) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero calls, MP raises, BB raises, Hero calls, MP raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (24.25 big bets) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB bets, Hero raises, MP calls, BB raises, Hero raises, MP calls, BB calls.

Final Pot:

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate the preflop raise. I'll limp this UTG in most games, but I don't raise it here.

You have to call getting around 11:1 when it's capped back to you. Your kicker is almost certainly no good here. Top pair might not even be best. But the three J's are probably good, and you've got 1.5 outs to the backdoor flush draw.

Turn and river look good.

[Schwartzy61]

I raise 100% with AA-TT, AKs - AJs, AKo-AQo, KQs

AJo and KQo depends on how the table is playing.

I don't know that I've ever raised KJs in EP, is this common amongst the 2+2ers? Just seemed like an auto-limp to me, along the lines of QJs, JTs, and ATs...

I've never heard much about raising KJs from EP, what is the reasoning behind it? Did someone do some deep analysis that proved KJs has a better EV by raising? I'm curious as to why people decide to raise this...

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never heard much about raising KJs from EP, what is the reasoning behind it? Did someone do some deep analysis that proved KJs has a better EV by raising? I'm curious as to why people decide to raise this...

[/ QUOTE ]

Duh...because the SSH "loose" starting hand chart tells us to.

But, seriously, high-card value, suitedness and connectedness. Tap that equity-ass!

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Aside from raising preflop, I don't see anything else you can do differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that you shouldn't be raising KJs preflop...it's just something you could have done differently.

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL. I thought he called preflop. I was advising a raise.

[shant]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise 100% with AA-TT, AKs - AJs, AKo-AQo, KQs

AJo and KQo depends on how the table is playing.

I don't know that I've ever raised KJs in EP, is this common amongst the 2+2ers? Just seemed like an auto-limp to me, along the lines of QJs, JTs, and ATs...

I've never heard much about raising KJs from EP, what is the reasoning behind it? Did someone do some deep analysis that proved KJs has a better EV by raising? I'm curious as to why people decide to raise this...

[/ QUOTE ]
I raise KQo and AJo 100% of the time, but this is a discussion that has been beat to death, so it really falls to preference. I also raise ATs from EP.

The thing with KJs or ATs is you don't mind being coldcalled, and you don't mind if the pot ends up 3-ways.

[Eeegah]

KJs is an always-raise for me unless I'm in the blinds. Ditto for ATs.