Big blind question

[rtrombone]

How many of you guys would call one bet from the big blind with 97 offsuit when 4 or 5 people are already in for 2 bets and your call will close the action? Assume it's a typical game, not particularly aggressive or passive postflop.

I feel like this is something of a loose call but it's close enough that I've made it before.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Offsuit middle one gappers such as 97 won't be dominated by an UTG raise the way Ax offsuit will. But you usually won't get any equity post flop floping one pair against a field. After an UTG raise and a few cold calls your opponents figure to compete aggressively postflop. This means in a raised pot you need to flop trips, two pair and straight draws. These flops don't come often. So IMO you need at least five opponents and perhaps six opponents. If anything, I might be a bit too loose here.

With fewer opponents (let's say three limpers), no pre flop raise and worse pot odds after calling for one half bet in the small blind I like the call quite a bit more. But here you can make many one pair or semi-bluffing hands that will take it down. That doesn't happen in a raised pot.

Regards,

Rick

[PokerPrince]

I would never make this call.

PokerPrince

[Ed Miller]

I would basically never call here. I wouldn't call with 98o either.

[ACBob]

I usually prefer to let this one go in this situation. Single gapper, non suited. Even if I get really lucky and hit big, I may not get paid off.

If the game is wild and the future potential is significant I may take a shot once in a while.

Bob Lewis

[Ulysses]

I'd muck it and I don't think it's close.

[DaBartman]

Rick, you touched upon something I have been giving some thought to lately. That is the number of opponets. With a hand like this I prefer exactly two. Example would be a late raiser, the SB and me in BB or limper, me in SB and BB knuckles. My reasoning is the value in a hand of this type comes not in getting big pot odds to flop a hand, but in its "stealing value". I would rather steal against one or two opponets than a crowd. If I get lucky and hit a hand great, but that is just not going to happen often.

[Ed S.]

I think you can make this call if there where 5 entering the pot. You don't make this a standard calling hand when ever you get 5 or more people entering the pot but you can make this on occassion. I believe S&M talks about this in HEFAP.


Ed S.

[Ulysses]

I think you need to seriously reevaluate your strategy. Playing crap in terrible position in the face of a raise against two opponents with the intent of making a play at the pot and hoping everyone else missed is pretty high up there on my list of terrible poker situations to be in.

If I get lucky and hit a hand great, but that is just not going to happen often.
That's why you toss the hand in the muck.

[bruce]

79 against two opponents fares much better. Playing [censored]
with the intention of outplaying them on the flop when rags
come is financial suicide.

In general I will play one gappers or connectors from the
blind only when the pot will be at least five way and I also need to have two live ones in there with me who will
gamble if I hit the flop hard.

Bruce

[nykenny]

I am very sure most will disagree with me. But I believe it's a clear call. UTG raise. 3 to 4 callers. I call maybe 100% of the time with 97o in BB. from pure odds perspective, you are getting 9 to 1 or 11 to 1 on the call.

Just be careful when you flop top pair... well i am sure you have considered that.

kenny

[Tommy Angelo]

Ever since that allimp A6o hand that Ulysses posted, I've been thinking of what we could call it when many (say more than half to all) players limp before the flop and no one raises.

I like "all-skate" because it has a couple meanings and because it sounds just like a multiple amplexus feels, I imagine.

Tommy

[Ulysses]

[Rick Nebiolo]

Bart,

You wrote: "With a hand like this I prefer exactly two. Example would be a late raiser, the SB and me in BB...."

Even against a late raiser, IMO you need more high card strength or a pair. A raised pot is going to be defended more tenaciously with typical opponents, especially as you move up in limits within the yellow chip world.

"....or limper, me in SB and BB knuckles."

Assuming the BB doesn't raise here the pot odds are the same but the situation is much better. With the right kind of limper and big blind (generally unaggressive and tight), you should be calling with many weaker hands you would toss against three of four opponents. The strength of the call is primarily based on steal equity. Of course the value of this move goes down against regular opponents, who eventually wise up to the fact you often bet ragged boards (eg. K73 rainbow) with little or nothing.

Regards,

Rick

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi rtrombone:

You wrote:

I feel like this is something of a loose call but it's close enough that I've made it before.

I think that's right, and being that's the case it doesn't matter very much. Of course this assumes you will play your hand reasonably well from the flop on.

Best wishes,
mason

[bad beetz]

multiple amplexus? sounds like one thing to me.

Our beloved sociopath KOJAK is no longer with us, so I'll just say what I'm sure he was thinking.

Gangbang.

I also like "multiflaccid engagement".

You know, there's a software company called "Amplexus." There must be another meaning or something.