When (& if) to release Trip A's?? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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HouseCalls

12-09-2005, 08:30 PM

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: HouseCalls is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, HouseCalls raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)

I'm happy with this flop. Thought about check raising hoping for a late bet to trap the field for 2 bets but since I rasied I thought it might get checked around so...

HouseCalls bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
My enthusiasm is beginning to fade...

HouseCalls bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, CO raises, Button calls, HouseCalls calls, MP1 calls.

2nd hand at this table so I have no reads yet; didn't think I could give this up without more proof I was beat.

River: (16 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
My hand's better but not good enough to beat the posssible straight I was worried about. I was willing to play for 1 bet but did not want to be faced with a raise. Too weak??

HouseCalls checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Button raises, HouseCalls calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.
Final Pot: 24 BB

At this point I figured I was pretty much dead (hard to believe that neither CO or button has the straight). Should I have saved the last 2 bets or was the pot too big to fold here?

My basic questions - should I have given up top pair/set here and if so when?

milesdyson

12-09-2005, 08:35 PM

before we talk about the river, let's first notice that you can not fold the turn with TP and oesd.

maybe we'll talk about the river later /images/graemlins/smile.gif

12-09-2005, 09:11 PM

You may save 2 bets by folding the river, but how many more than that do you lose to subsequent tilt when CO turns over two pair and button turns over an Ace with a lower kicker?

This is an easy call with a pot that big.

DCWildcat

12-09-2005, 09:23 PM

I'd raise 500x faster than I fold the turn. Not because of any merits of raising, either. Folding the turn would be the worst mistake in poker.

I don't want to be an ass, but folding the river is really, really bad. You would have heard from a higher kicker by now. Only 3 straights beat you. You'll be shown an ugly and stupidly played two pair way too often to make that fold.

Bet/call the river.

tyler_cracker

12-09-2005, 09:52 PM

Let's 3-bet the turn while we have MP1 and Button trapped. If CO caps, we can slow down after that. Hot or not?

12-09-2005, 10:33 PM

Is raising this hand preflop a good idea in SB, are we just raising for value here with all the limpers for when we hit?

But other than that, I agree that you cannot fold this hand on the turn or the river. OESD on the turn with top pair, then trips with a good kicker on the river, I dont fold this in either spots, maybe 3 bet the turn...

tyler_cracker

12-09-2005, 10:39 PM

Ed Miller has an article somewhere where he says that failing to raise ATs is a bigger mistake than raising 72o.

The preflop raise is for value, as you noted. We have a hand that plays well multiway. Our position sucks, but we would be giving up too much of our equity edge to just complete here.

HouseCalls

12-09-2005, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
let's first notice that you can not fold the turn with TP and oesd.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah yeah I agree you can't fold here but some percentage of the "outs to the oesd" are outs to a split pot so I think the bet/call approach is ok. Do you think a rasie is either for value or will buy outs - probably not.

tyler_cracker

12-09-2005, 10:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah yeah I agree you can't fold here but some percentage of the "outs to the oesd" are outs to a split pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think all 4 callers on the turn have a T?

HouseCalls

12-09-2005, 10:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think all 4 callers on the turn have a T?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope but what percentage of the time do u think I am still ahead after CO raises my turn bet? I'm not thinking of reraising here unles I pretty sure I'm still ahead. Is that weak thinking? Should I reraise unless I know I'm behind? - If so why? it doesn't seem to be for value and I think only hands I already beat will fold.

AlmightyJay

12-09-2005, 11:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: HouseCalls is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, HouseCalls raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)

I'm happy with this flop. Thought about check raising hoping for a late bet to trap the field for 2 bets but since I rasied I thought it might get checked around so...

HouseCalls bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
My enthusiasm is beginning to fade...

HouseCalls bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, CO raises, Button calls, HouseCalls calls, MP1 calls.

2nd hand at this table so I have no reads yet; didn't think I could give this up without more proof I was beat.

River: (16 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
My hand's better but not good enough to beat the posssible straight I was worried about. I was willing to play for 1 bet but did not want to be faced with a raise. Too weak??

HouseCalls checks, MP1 checks, CO bets, Button raises, HouseCalls calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.
Final Pot: 24 BB

At this point I figured I was pretty much dead (hard to believe that neither CO or button has the straight). Should I have saved the last 2 bets or was the pot too big to fold here?

My basic questions - should I have given up top pair/set here and if so when?

[/ QUOTE ]

That turn gave you an OESD to go with your top pair, okay kicker. I would be extremely happy with it. This hand was played weak.