Flopped trips (again), worst turn card possible.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

The preflop call is questionable here, I know that. But since UTG limps I am hoping for at least 1 other call and that SB completes. If there is one raise I am thinking this could be a 3-4 player pot. You get the point. That's why I called and I am ready to call one raise.

Flop: (5.00 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Oh sweet.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Dammit. I did not want to see that K here.

River: (6.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Probably should have bet here but people have been check-raising me alot lately. I know, I should forget about that and play my normal game.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB.

Line check?

I think I would play it the same, except I bet the river for sure. He would bet a king here, so your hand is good a large majority of the time.

[jaxUp]

pf is g00t, flop is g00t, turn is g00t.

you + river*check^pansy = weaksauce. Value bet.

[ QUOTE ]
you + river*check^pansy = weaksauce. Value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, yea /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[midwestkc]

*grunch*

I probably fold PF here, but I like your reasoning. Other than that, I like it, but I bet this river. If he has a king, that's his bad for not betting, not yours.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
The preflop call is questionable here, I know that. But since UTG limps I am hoping for at least 1 other call and that SB completes. If there is one raise I am thinking this could be a 3-4 player pot. You get the point. That's why I called and I am ready to call one raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like the preflop limp second in the pot and in such an early position. If your position were better, or there were a limper in before you, I'd feel better about it. You should be very unhappy about the prospect of playing this hand in a 3-4 handed raised pot. Your hand doesn't do very well in that situation.

You've got to bet the river. Unless you have a very good read, fold if he got cute with a river check-raise.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
If your position were better, or there were a limper in before you, I'd feel better about it

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UTG limped.

[car ramrod]

[ QUOTE ]
If there is one raise I am thinking this could be a 3-4 player pot. You get the point. That's why I called and I am ready to call one raise.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a good way of looking at it. By your logic I could play a ton of hands in ep, and say to myself, well there will probably be a few people in, and if they raise it will be a big pot, so I will have odds to draw out.

If you get raised, it may shut out the blinds, along with any other limpers who thought about coming in for 1 bet, but won't call 2. Now you are playing 9Ts against 3 people, 9Ts is to be played with lots of players, and for 1 bet. This was a bad limp. You can justify it all you want, but that will just make you think you can do it again next time. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

The villan bet the turn like he had the K, but then he lets up on the river? If he had the K he would bet again on the river. He was probably trying to bluff you out of the pot with the turn bet. I'd bet the river, but fold to the c/r.

Did you two split the pot with 9's?

Good point. I need to do some thinking on this, but this table have been somewhat passive preflop, that's why I did my reasoning that way but on the other hand, with a passive table, why do I expect a 4 player pot if it get raised? Ok, im confusing myself now, I'll stop /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The river is a clear bet, I figured that out when I checked. Bleh, I know that I let a few earlier incidents matter in my check since I was check raised alot these days but I know, I should just stick to my game.

Villain showed AJ.

[Catsailor]

T9s is a fold for me except late with 2 or more limpers.
Flop:I wonder if waiting for the turn to raise makes any sense? The result was fine but you might get 3 more calls here. No pfr so only worry about flush draws.
Turn: This card would worry me more with more players but here I call.
River: After check, I would definetly bet/call. I don't see him checking Kings full after turn bet.

How wrong am I on this flop line? Any comments appreciated.

[medaugh]

The check line is player dependent IMO. Reads would be helpful. I think you could value bet a quality player. If villan is a decent to fair player they most likely wouldn't have limped with K-anything UTG. They might play a smaller to mid PP depending on the table. (Using the same line of thinking you did with your suited connector) I would value bet this type of villan.

On the other hand if the villan is not a very good player, I like the check behind. This type of player would limp KQ, KJ, K10 etc. UTG

bet river.

[Guthrie]

Why would we bet the river but not raise the turn?

If he has a king maybe he's planning to check/raise the river.

*grunch*

TURN: UTG donk bets into you on the turn...don't you think he would set you up for a CR by checking if he had a K? Don't know what I would do, but I could see raising here. Maybe he thinks his lone A is good.

RIVER: I guess you could value bet, but what's he gonna call with that doesn't have you beaten...two pair/Ace kicker? JT (that would be a weird hand for him to have)? Strange for him to check on the river. I think I'd bet anyways. If he's got the K, so be it. NH

ScottieK

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would we bet the river but not raise the turn?

If he has a king maybe he's planning to check/raise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
because his river check tells us he does not have a king often, and his flop bet/call tells us he does not have a 9 often. but back when he bet the turn, it really looked like a 9 or king or bluff, so we just want to get to show down. now that we see his river check, we can go back and say that on the turn he was likely betting either ace high or possibly was randomly bluffing.

betting is our only chance to get something out of ace high. if he is attempting to c/r a king, bravo to him. you will not see this play often.

[Aaron W.]

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[ QUOTE ]
If your position were better, or there were a limper in before you, I'd feel better about it

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG limped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, that was a mistype... an extra limper.

is the consensus that villain would have tried to check/raise the turn if he had the K? I'm trying to figure out how I'd try to get value out of someone with a 9. Because the line he took makes me think he had it more likely than not:

flop - he bet the K, thinking no one would have the 9. he got raised.

turn - he bet his FH b/c he thought it would get checked behind.

river - he's pretty sure a bet is folding hero, but thinks hero might take another swing, surmising that the turn bet was a bluff.

If hero folds to a c/r, he gets his one bet on the river. although, if he thought hero had the 9, it's hard to see him not calling a bet, so villain could've swung again. Then again, the same hero with the 9 might call the c/r.

I could see him playing it either way, but I get the feeling I'm alone here. Am I?