First hand posted

This is the first hand I have posted.
I'm wondering if it applies to WA/WB, and did I miss a 3bet PF?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (4.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 9.20 BB

Please be gentle with me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[UATrewqaz]

I bet the turn, you probably have the best hand on the turn but you are giving a free card and an overcard can beat you (I'm surprised the Q on the river didn't, an ace would have for sure.)

[tyler_cracker]

I raise this preflop 99% of the time. Hand plays different after that.

As played, definitely bet the turn.

As played, i completely do not understand your river donk.

[testaaja]

*grunch*
I would say that fold the turn. You are drawing dead to K and there are MANY cards that you will lose to. The pot is not too big so.. I would fold the turn.

[ QUOTE ]
I raise this preflop 99% of the time. Hand plays different after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

&gt;&gt;As played, i completely do not understand your river donk. &lt;&lt;

I wasn't sure if I was ahead or behind. I was thinking that UTG+1 didn't have a King, and that he was bluffing at the pot. I did it as a semi-bluff, that he would think I had a larger two pair with the Q.
I guess I'm unclear on the concept of "donking".

[ QUOTE ]
I raise this preflop 99% of the time. Hand plays different after that.



[/ QUOTE ]
So I should have 3 bet preflop?

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't sure if I was ahead or behind. I was thinking that UTG+1 didn't have a King, and that he was bluffing at the pot. I did it as a semi-bluff, that he would think I had a larger two pair with the Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should look up what "semi-bluff" means; this ain't it.

Also, if you think he will bluff at the pot, just check/call and let him bluff at it and take his extra BB on the river.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm unclear on the concept of "donking".

[/ QUOTE ]

"donking" or "a donkbet" is when you just called a bet or raise on a previous street and then you lead out on the next street. This is precisely what you did on the river.

I see that you were trying to follow a WA/WB line, but you're never WA here -- Villain almost always has at least 6 outs (overcards) to beat you.

[Slim Pickens]

Tyler refers to any random lead bet made on the river for vague-to-non-existent reasons as a "donk bet" or "donking the river."

EDIT: term can be applied to any street, but most common on the river.

To answer one of your original questions, there are probably not enough people in the pot to reraise PF for value, but it's not a huge mistake. You should be raising PF though.

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this preflop 99% of the time. Hand plays different after that.



[/ QUOTE ]
So I should have 3 bet preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I would have raised the first time. If UTG+1 3-bet me, i would just call.

3-betting after UTG+1 raises doesn't accomplish anything.

[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*
I would say that fold the turn. You are drawing dead to K and there are MANY cards that you will lose to. The pot is not too big so.. I would fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense. After the flop checks through and the board pairs the K, I think there's a better chance than not that our hand is best. We are not drawing dead either. Folding is not an option given the action here.

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't sure if I was ahead or behind. I was thinking that UTG+1 didn't have a King, and that he was bluffing at the pot. I did it as a semi-bluff, that he would think I had a larger two pair with the Q.
I guess I'm unclear on the concept of "donking".

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this donk is not-so-great for a few reasons:

1. It is an overcard to your pair and you could now be beat. What are you going to do if raised here? It might be ok heads up but..

2. There are 3 other people in the hand. If any of them calls you are probably beat.

3. You may gain a bet by picking off a bluff or save a bet by not overcalling. If one person bets and it folds to you, you might make a crying call and possibly pick off a bluff. If you check and there is a bet and call back to you, you can make a pretty safe fold, as the caller cannot be bluffing and probably has you beat.

[testaaja]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*
I would say that fold the turn. You are drawing dead to K and there are MANY cards that you will lose to. The pot is not too big so.. I would fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense. After the flop checks through and the board pairs the K, I think there's a better chance than not that our hand is best. We are not drawing dead either. Folding is not an option given the action here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it seems no one has K but he turn brings the second diamond so now if a diamond falls on river or A or T (or the Q that got there) OP could easily get beaten (if he isn't yet). Someone could have bigger PP than OP's and so on. This is why I like folding here /images/graemlins/smirk.gif.
Edit: And yes please someone correct me if it is needed. I'm just a newbie /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[ajm36]

Vil could be raising a lot of things PF like AA-TT AK-AJ suited or not ATs, KQ, KJs, JTs, QJs--A8 because Wild Bill got shot while holdn' it and "it's a good hand". It really depends how loose he is, bet the flop to assess hand strength--it's cheap here.

[RustyCJ]

*grunch*

I raise this PF usually. Generally people will tell you not to open limp, only under passive table conditions should you do so.

raising this PF actually makes it easier to play post flop.

as played - I would probably bet this flop and see what reaction I get. It also depends on a read of UTG+1 here. Alot of people will fold QQ,JJ and TT when you bet this.

Thank you all for your comments. I learn a lot here!

For anyone curious, when I bet the river, they all folded, and I won the hand. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

grunch...(Blind post)

some people will say raise pf, but I think it depends on the table. A loose table I will just call from early position.

as for the turn action, UTG+1 could be betting with his 2nd pair. One would expect if he had a king, he would have bet on the flop given his relative position (only 1 player acting behind for which to c/r). Actually, if we think our hand is good, the we should bet this turn.

on the river, given another overcard, I think we need to check and see what happens. We don't have good position. Another option is to bet/fold.