did i play this correct?

im a beginner looking for comments on how i played this hand. its a $1 tourney; full of fish.

i get QQ in 3rd position. 2nd position limps(blinds are 30/60) villian raises to 60 with AKo wtf?? folds to me, 2 seats before button. i reraise to 175. folds to villian who calls. flop is Ad Qh 7h with 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs. villian bets 150 into 425 chip pot, i raise to 400, villian calls. turn is 7s. villian checks. i push all in, (590) villian calls. guess wath the river is?

[Pov]

What do you think you did wrong? Why?

[SheridanCat]

I'm having trouble parsing this hand in my head.

Where are you exactly, with your QQ? You say you are in third position, yet 2nd position limps and another player raises before it gets to you. I'm stumped.

The blinds are 30/60, but the villain - who entered after the limper - raised to 60? Do you mean, raised 60 to 120?

Finally, you seem to have turned a full house. You claim villain held AKo, so he's drawing dead. What is your question about how you played?

I'd like to comment, but I have no idea what happened in this hand. If you have the history, just post it or run it through a converter.

Regards,

T

[gabbahh]

You say flop is Ad Qh 7h with two diamonds. So I am assuming two diamonds.

I guess that the river was another diamond or an Ace.
Very bad in both ways..
Guess he had A(non diamonds)Kd .
You played it ok. The weak raise on the flop by villain suggests he wants to draw cheaply. So your reraise is good. His calling of your raise might suggest a made hand like TPTK. Next his checking on the turn and the calling of the allin made me put him on Ace non diamonds with a random diamonds like a king (he was getting good odds for his turn call). With A?Kd being the most likely.
You got outdrawn. Your opponent played it bad, but got lucky on the river.

If I'm reading the action right, I don't think either you or villain did much wrong. Apart from perhaps villains initial pre-flop raise and flop bets are too low.

He's flopped TPTK, you've flopped a set: you both think you're ahead.

From your last line, I'm guessing he rivered an A for a full house?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

guess wath the river is?

The river is irrelevant to your question. Well played.

[Songwind]

Good play, nice aggression, sorry if you got sucked out. Keep playing that way and you'll win more than you lose /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
You say flop is Ad Qh 7h with two diamonds. So I am assuming two diamonds.

I guess that the river was another diamond or an Ace.
Very bad in both ways..


[/ QUOTE ]

But, he apparently turned a full house, so where was he behind in this hand? That's why I asked for clarification.

Regards,

T

i too don't understand the order of play.... i think you were 3rd from last, not 3rd.....

it seems like pretty good play... and i didn't understand whether you thought the pre-flop raise with AKo was too little or too big (i.e. shouldn't have raised).

we'd probably also need chip counts.

the smaller tournaments we all play, you don't have that many chances to double up, so i'd push QQQ like you did no matter what. cash game you get into "smarter laydowns" but tournaments you have to increase your chips and you won't get a better opportunity than this (although pre-flop raise from a good player is a red flag, i'd still play it as you did)

yeah, i didn't notice the full house either. only pocket hands that beat you are AA or 77.. you don't have to worry about the flush with your full house.

i think you might need to edit the description somewhat

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
im a beginner looking for comments on how i played this hand. its a $1 tourney; full of fish.

i get QQ in 3rd position. 2nd position limps(blinds are 30/60) villian raises to 60 with AKo wtf?? folds to me, 2 seats before button. i reraise to 175. folds to villian who calls. flop is Ad Qh 7h with 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs. villian bets 150 into 425 chip pot, i raise to 400, villian calls. turn is 7s. villian checks. i push all in, (590) villian calls. guess wath the river is?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why you're asking WTF to villain raising to 60. (Other than the fact that the blinds seem to already be 30/60). You probably meant villain raised to 120 or that blinds are 15/30.

Either way, good reraise pre-flop. On the flop, it's not a bad raise either. I'd push in on the turn too. If he had AA or 77, then oh well. If he had AK, then he's just got 2 outs to beat you. If the river is an Ace, that's tough.

A little bit of advice, reread your post before you make it. There are some mistakes in how you recount the hand, and it's a little tough to follow. Were the blinds 30/60? Did villain really raise TO 60, or raise 60 more? Was the flop Ad Qh 7h, or did it have 2 diamonds?

And don't ask us to guess what the river is. Bad beat posts aren't kindly looked upon here (except in teh Bad Beat forums). You're posting in the beginner forum, so we'll cut you some slack for being new here.

Nice hand, tough break.

[ QUOTE ]
And don't ask us to guess what the river is. Bad beat posts aren't kindly looked upon here (except in teh Bad Beat forums). You're posting in the beginner forum, so we'll cut you some slack for being new here.


[/ QUOTE ]

very well said!! and i agree on cutting some slack on it being the beginners forum.

i concur with you as i can't handle bad beat stories. i have enough myself. if i play every day, i have a bad beat every day. occasionally, i have 3 or 4 bad beats in an hour... so i don't need anyone else's bad beat stories. i have enough of my own.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
And don't ask us to guess what the river is. Bad beat posts aren't kindly looked upon here (except in teh Bad Beat forums). You're posting in the beginner forum, so we'll cut you some slack for being new here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love trying to guess what the river is, since (from my own experience) the OP is usually asking the question because he or she doesn't know whether it was horrid luck or a misplayed hand. I just consider it a bizarre form of hand reading. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But the point about bad beat posts is still very pertinent.

I'm going to guess the river was an ace and Villain made aces full. Second choice is a seven where V. was overplaying K7 or 76 or something. Those AFAICT are the only two ways Villain wins on this board.

To the OP: don't ever forget that your bad beats mean you were playing correctly. Why do I take so many bad beats but hardly give any out? (http://poker.wikicities.com/wiki/Beginners_FAQ#Why_do_I_take_so_many_bad_beats_but_ hardly_give_any_out.3F)

yeah im sorry. it was late and i tried using the bisonbison hand converter but it didnt work. yes the blinds were 15/30, i said wtf because AK isnt the kind of hand to trap people with; i usually raise alot preflop with that and try to steal, and if they call im usually no more than an 11/10 dog. it seems like i play cash games much better than tourneys, and i just wanted some input on how i played the hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
yeah im sorry. it was late and i tried using the bisonbison hand converter but it didnt work. yes the blinds were 15/30, i said wtf because AK isnt the kind of hand to trap people with; i usually raise alot preflop with that and try to steal, and if they call im usually no more than an 11/10 dog. it seems like i play cash games much better than tourneys, and i just wanted some input on how i played the hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

doing this from memory, but i think i (and most of the posters here) thought your play was good....

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah im sorry. it was late and i tried using the bisonbison hand converter but it didnt work. yes the blinds were 15/30, i said wtf because AK isnt the kind of hand to trap people with; i usually raise alot preflop with that and try to steal, and if they call im usually no more than an 11/10 dog. it seems like i play cash games much better than tourneys, and i just wanted some input on how i played the hand. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hint: Just because you play something a certain way, doesn't mean others are. Mini-raising with AKo isn't the worst thing I've seen from others, though I would also raise more than that. I tend to think that limp/reraising is more of a trap than mini-raising here.

Whatever. That wasn't the point. You played the hand fine.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
Mini-raising with AKo isn't the worst thing I've seen from others....

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but minraising and minbetting is incredibly common in the small-stakes NLHE I've seen. It's as though people haven't quite grasped that this isn't limit poker, so they forget to move the bet/raise amount selector from its default position.

well i did read the link in your post. now i know why i get the shaft 9 times out of 10 when theres a miracle. but i also read in a Deal article that the way you play can alter your luck. it even quoted Chris Ferguson saying "the person that appears luckiest in a card room is usually the best player." that the heck is that all about? so even if luck was the determining factor of if a player is great or not, which i think is false, wouldnt the good luck make a good player great?

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
it even quoted Chris Ferguson saying "the person that appears luckiest in a card room is usually the best player."

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't take that quote too seriously. Maybe he's talking about his long tournament career or something, or maybe he just wanted to give them a notable quote. Ferguson is a mathematics Ph. D.; I'm sure he knows that one 8-hour session in a cardroom can make the worst player look brilliant.

Now long term, yes, you make your own luck in poker. Maybe that's what he meant. *shrug*

well how do you make your own luck? i dont get it? either youre getting the cards, or youre not. either youre on a rush or you go hours without seeing a face card or pocket pair lol. i think that maybe i play too tight, and so i get unlucky relatively often because i only put all my chips/money at risk with a very strong hand. there are so many contradictions in poker theory its unbelievable. one being that some people will tell you to play tight and wait for people to make mistakes; some say you have to play aggressive in order to win longterm.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
well how do you make your own luck?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a fair question to keep me from lapsing into platitudes. When I say you make your own luck, I mean that in the long run you're going to get the same cards as everyone else. The long run in this case is measured by years and lifetimes, not hours and days. What determines your ultimate success over the years is how you play the hands you're dealt, because no one rides the rush of cards for that long.

I would imagine that's what Ferguson meant. Without context I can't say.

[ QUOTE ]
one being that some people will tell you to play tight and wait for people to make mistakes; some say you have to play aggressive in order to win longterm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing tight and aggressively are not mutually exclusive, although to those not acquainted with poker terms they often seem to be. Here are some definitions (http://poker.wikicities.com/wiki/Game_texture) as they apply to games, but basically they mean the same thing applying to players. A tight-aggressive player contests few pots, but will make many bets and raises in those pots she contests. A loose-passive player plays many hands, but plays them by checking and calling more than betting and raising.

Now, some good players have found ways to succeed by being loose-aggressive in certain situations (Gus Hansen is often cited), but they pick their moments, which most often come in tournaments.

well i consider myself TAG. ill almost always make continuation bets on the flop, especially when i can show ducks or a weak suited ace when they fold.i have tried playing pretty aggressively; it always bites me in the ass. its just not my style. but some people cintinuously win by playing that way.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
well i consider myself TAG.... i have tried playing pretty aggressively; it always bites me in the ass. its just not my style.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do understand that TAG stands for tight-aggressive, right?

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
well i consider myself TAG. ill almost always make continuation bets on the flop, especially when i can show ducks or a weak suited ace when they fold.i have tried playing pretty aggressively; it always bites me in the ass. its just not my style. but some people cintinuously win by playing that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, showing your weak hands after making a winning continuation bet is a prime way to get called down every time. Don't do it. Never show a hand you don't have to. Showboating will bite you in the arse.

Second, if you play a style other than tight/aggressive you are destined to lose. Playing passively by check/calling minimizes equity edges while giving your opponents maximum opportunities to beat you. Playing loose often puts you in situations where you are trying to catch up or don't know where you are in the hand.

You say you consider yourself tight/aggressive yet then say it's not your style. What is your definition of tight/aggressive?

Regards,

T

i meant that when i was up alot in the session, and sometimes had more money than anybody else, i would be raising with medium hands late in position with no limpers and get burned, etc. i just tried raising more often and i ended up losing some of my profit. i guess i was just trying out some advice i thought was good; like you should raise more than calling. i think maybe i exaggerated that. it just makes me kinda mad when i watch some maniacs run a table because everybody else is afraid of his constant raises, but when i try to duplicate that play i run into monsters or just donk off money. theres so much more i have to learn about the game; right now im trying to put together some preflop charts etc.