Pocket nines full steam ahead, Ace on river...

[blackaces13]

Pokerroom 2/4 (10 handed)

Table was pretty tight overall with a lot of solid multitablers. Button on this hand was the softest spot at the table by far. He was too loose before and after the flop and fairly passive.

CO posts a big blind and is new to the table

PREFLOP: Hero is UTG+1 with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif
1 fold, <font color="red"> Hero raises </font>, 4 folds, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls.

FLOP: 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players, 8.5 SBs)
BB checks, <font color="red"> Hero bets </font>, CO (poster) calls, Button calls, BB folds.

TURN: 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 5.5 BBs)
<font color="red"> Hero bets </font>, CO calls, Button calls.

River: A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 8.25 BBs)
Hero...

What's my line?

[Sintax]

Bet, with intent to fold to a raise.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet, with intent to fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a pretty big pot to throw away when an obvious scare card hits isn't it? Also, I have the CO behind me whom I know nothing about and I can't let him steal the pot with a raise since I look like I'm on an overpair.

[MelchyBeau]

I believe this is a standard bet.

What do you think they could be calling you with? flush draw is a possibility. So are overcards. However someone could be calling you down with a pair of 8s or something.

This card can also look scary to them, as you raised PF.

Melch

[Duffman]

I usually bet/call here, fold if it's 2 back to me.

[Harv72b]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually vomit with rage here.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Seriously...this is a seriously tough position to be in. Given your passive read on Button, you can probably safely fold if he raises your river bet (probably with a 2 rather than an ace), and if you bet, CO raises, and Button calls 2 then you have a big enough pot to consider the overcall (especially given his quality of play, as him calling two on the river hardly means he must have an ace). It only gets tricky if CO raises and Button then folds, but again, you're looking at a pot of over 10 BBs.

I've never played on Pokerroom, but FWIW I don't remember seeing very many river bluff raises on Party 2/4.

The problem with a bet is what to do if you're raised; I personally would probably fold to a raise, but that sucks too. A raise will put you in a difficult situation.

And also, what will they call you with that you beat? With a pair of eights perhaps, but they won't call with a busted draw (which is the type of hand the most likely have), and it's not clear that they will call with a lower pair than eights.

An alternative play - using the above arguments and the fact that the river is scary - is to check, inducing a bluff. Now they will perhaps bet their weak hands, hoping to steal the pot with the scary ace.

I think all the alternatives bet/call, bet/fold and check/call are all worth considering. Hard to say which one is best.

[SenecaJim]

Personally I prefer checking here. I don't like betting If I know I won't call a raise.

Also, I don't like to be seen folding to river raise. I do it sometimes, but usually I was bluffing at pot heads up when I do.


Also, I check, co bets and button raises. Now , if I was gonna fold to raise I can toss it and say, Man, I had nothing. Also, if you think you can't beat an overcall even, just fold. Or, if weak button bets after co checks you can raise yourself to drive co off hand.

If you check and get checked behind by weaker hands, though my guess is one has an ace, you can let them know you knew what was in their hand. (table image} and if checked behind you with stronger hand you can say, "Damn, I thought one of you guys would bet so I could raise". I believe all of these scenarios are more beneficial to your image than betting and folding on the river.

[bambi]

i think they have busted draws here more often then a pair, i check/call

[SenecaJim]

very possibly. We both agree on the action so either way it's check / call.

[blackaces13]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but this:

[ QUOTE ]
Or, if weak button bets after co checks you can raise yourself to drive co off hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is the last thing you'd want to do if button bets. He's a loose/passive calling stationesque player.

[SenecaJim]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with a lot of what you said, but this:

[ QUOTE ]
Or, if weak button bets after co checks you can raise yourself to drive co off hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is the last thing you'd want to do if button bets. He's a loose/passive calling stationesque player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, see what you mean. I was thinking of all possibilities you might have by checking first instead of betting. I was recalling that he was Soft spot and loose. But yeah, passive would not bet without having you beat. Good point.