Bellagio 5K, Two Hands

[shaniac]

Hand 1:

Table is tough. Level 1, 25/50 blinds. Ted Forrest is on my right, I'm in the 10 seat. Tricky agressive Russian player (who the hand before made a flush with 65hh to crack my TPTK in a decent-sized pot) limps. Ted makes it 200 on the button. I have about 8K and make a tilty-looking (or so I hope) re-raise with AsAh to 1000.

Limper calls the 1K as does Ted. Flop is 6s3s3h with two spades. I bet 1800, limper folds, Ted calls. Turn is the 7h. Board is 6s3s3h7h. There's 6400 in the pot. I have about 5400 left. Ted covers me. What's your plan? What does Ted have? How do you proceed?

Hand 2:

Takes place on the very last hand before the break, with 43 seconds on the clock. Patty "The Machine Gun" Gallagher has spent about 10 minutes at the table during the entire first two hours. The first 5 minutes of the day, she played just about every pot, then went AWOL for most of the next two levels and returned with 5 minutes before the break, where she resumed playing every hand.

Blinds are 50/100. I have about 6K to start the hand. Chino limps, Patty limps. I'm hoping to see 83o and get an extra 30 seconds of break, but I see Ah4h and limp too. Flop is As 5d 4s. Checked to Chino who bets 400, Patty calls 400, I make it 1200 with TABP, Chino looks distresed but calls, and Patty immediately fires in her stack.

What does she have? Am I calling for my tournamenet life against a LAG? Am I worried about Chino?

Flame away bitches.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:
Flop is 6s3s3h with two spades. I bet 1800, limper folds, Ted calls. Turn is the 7h. Board is 6h3s3h7h.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean 2 spades 2 hearts on the turn?

[billyjex]

Hand 1, I like checking the turn. He might fold an overpair or some kinda weak pair on board if we keep firing, so let him either bet with his weak hand or try to steal it. A free card isn't too bad, I don't see many holding he has that will beat us with a free river (if he already has us beat, so be it.) So I like a turn check, and probably all in if he bets. If he checks turn, bet 1/2 pot on river.

Hand 2: I can't fold. There are way too many draws for her to have that she will semibluff all in, any spade draw, 76, pair/spade combo, etc, 54 maybe. If she has A5, so be it. As far as Chino, not sure if the distressed call means "weak means strong," but if he slowplayed a big hand on a board like that, good for him, he has my chips. Most likely he is drawing or has a weak made hand.

Edit:

Hand 1: Didn't see your mistake w/ the board. I thought you had the nut flush draw. I probably just push the turn then.

Hand 2: What about raising PF?

[shaniac]

Yah that is what I meant.

[MLG]

Hand 1.
I'm checking the turn, with the plan of calling a push or pushing the river or check-calling the river depending on the card. I don't think pushing there can be wrong either. With less than the pot in your stack i cant see getting away from this.

Hand 2
Stick it in there, way to often patti has a draw, and it sure seems to me like Chino has AK/AQ.

[LearnedfromTV]

Hand 1: If he had a draw on the flop, he got there, and you have a 11-13 out redraw (7-9 flush outs, 4 boat outs). The only way a river card can beat you if you are ahead is if he has a lower pair and hits a two outer. I suppose I can't entirely discount a 3 from his range, but it's unlikely.

If you bet and he pushes with a straight or a flush you are committed to calling.

I think you should want to get all your money in and to do it in a way that maximizing the amount he puts in when behind because you are going broke when he has a flush or straight. Checkraise allin, mainly because many of the hands you are ahead of (middle pairs, e.g.) are more likely to pay you off on the turn than on the river if a 4th heart hits. If he checks behind, value bet any river.

Edit: yuck - I see the edit to two spades, two hearts now. In that case, maybe a bet is better. Seems like he could check a flush draw behind too often to make getting value from weaker pairs worth it. No longer the case that no river card can hurt you. Now half the deck might. If he's pretty likely to bet when checked to with a draw, I definitely like cr allin still.

[johnnybeef]

Hand 1. Ted has a huge range here. He could be bagging 66, he could have an overpair, 45, hearts, or really anything. I'm not too sure if he thinks you are on tilt here, and considering that he is one of the best players in the world it is highly likely that he has a pretty good read on you as you have played your hand like AA up to this point. I check fold this here I think. That said, the key element to this hand is if he thinks you are tilting or not, which you have stated is unknown to you.

Hand 2: What does she have? Without knowing how she plays postflop, this is highly difficult for me to answer. I'd imagine that the chances that she could be making this move with a semi bluff or air often enough to warrant a call. Chino isn't calling here.

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1.
I'm checking the turn, with the plan of calling a push or pushing the river or check-calling the river depending on the card. I don't think pushing there can be wrong either. With less than the pot in your stack i cant see getting away from this.

Hand 2
Stick it in there, way to often patti has a draw, and it sure seems to me like Chino has AK/AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

[adanthar]

I'm with MLG on Hand 1. I check/call here a lot because I like it when they put in chips drawing dead. Sometimes it turns out they aren't, but, well, you win some you lose some. Check/folding...if you're gonna do that please mail me the money, I can use it better than you.

Hand 2: Online this is a set, here I have no idea. A little ahead/way behind but there's a lot of dead chips...I don't know. Well, she's LAG enough, stick it in I guess.

In the second hand she could have a very strong draw like 7s6s. Now that there is so much money in the pot it seems like a good spot for her to jam. If she calls and the turn comes a blank her hand won't look that good when she would have to face a strong bet on the turn.

If she made the str8, a set or bottom two she could play it that way too. Taking a shot at building a big pot by calling the flop. It doesn't look like you can lay it down there. Did the blinds check fold the flop? That could explain some slowplaying if you were 4-5 to see the flop.

Chino could have a fairly good ace like AT-AJs, but he's call OOP is weird. He may be planning to bet the turn.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
Check/folding...if you're gonna do that please mail me the money, I can use it better than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure you were the only one who read the hand and thought I would consider a check-fold:-)

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Check/folding...if you're gonna do that please mail me the money, I can use it better than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, I like the discussion brewing here. I'm curious why you think this. What do you think he puts you on in this situation?

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2:

.....Chino limps, Patty limps...but I see Ah4h and limp too.

Checked to Chino who bets 400, Patty calls 400, I make it 1200 .....

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that it most likely matters much but the betting order has me 'fused /images/graemlins/confused.gif or are other players involved, the blinds?

[adanthar]

Not you, I know you wouldn't /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

He puts you on, umm...two cards that tilt-raised and then c-bet a low flop?

[Exitonly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check/folding...if you're gonna do that please mail me the money, I can use it better than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good, I like the discussion brewing here. I'm curious why you think this. What do you think he puts you on in this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

a tilty reraise followed by a c-bet on a ragged board..

99+, AJs+ ?

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
Not that it most likely matters much but the betting order has me 'fused or are other players involved, the blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes the blinds were implicity participating in this hand.

As for what someone else mentioned somewhere, that Ted has a huge range. I don't think that's really true.

As for what he puts me on? I think he's got to decide whether I'm actually tilting/bluffing or I have the hand I'm representing.

[locutus2002]

Hand 1:
I think Ted has two spades like KQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif

He probably figures you for JJ-AA to lead the flop after such a big PF raise. I'd bet the turn for about T2000. If he knows where you are at, he must have a flush draw. I'd be surprised if you got any action by checking it even if he had a hand like QQ.

T2000 gives him implied odds of 6:1 to see the river (about right).

[Roman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1.
I'm checking the turn, with the plan of calling a push or pushing the river or check-calling the river depending on the card. I don't think pushing there can be wrong either. With less than the pot in your stack i cant see getting away from this.

Hand 2
Stick it in there, way to often patti has a draw, and it sure seems to me like Chino has AK/AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jason Strasser]

Hand 1: i mean, what can you do? get ur chips in there. I would hesitate and go all in (similar to your KJ hand in wsop).

Hand 2: You cant get away here, go broke as well.

Both seem like spots where your money obviously has to go in.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
a tilty reraise followed by a c-bet on a ragged board..

99+, AJs+ ?


[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
He puts you on, umm...two cards that tilt-raised and then c-bet a low flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly, but like I said, the key element is if he believes you are on tilt here. In a vacuum, Shane totally played this hand like a big pair/AK. But then again, I could just be scared of the monster under the bed.

[Yeti]

[ QUOTE ]

Both seem like spots where your money obviously has to go in.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

As for what someone else mentioned somewhere, that Ted has a huge range. I don't think that's really true.

As for what he puts me on? I think he's got to decide whether I'm actually tilting/bluffing or I have the hand I'm representing.

[/ QUOTE ]

isn't his most likely range a medium pp? 88-JJ.
He may put you on the same range, plus higher pairs and AK. It is difficult for him to play something like JJ here. Do you think he's more likely to make a tough call or a tough lay down? You didn't mention if it represents a big part of his stack if he calls a push?

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]

isn't his most likely range a medium pp? 88-JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd put it at something like 88-QQ, AQ+.

How about the other guy preflop? The limper who called two raises cold? Wonder what he had.

[ QUOTE ]
It is difficult for him to play something like JJ here. Do you think he's more likely to make a tough call or a tough lay down? You didn't mention if it represents a big part of his stack if he calls a push?

[/ QUOTE ]

He has me covered only slightly. This is within the first 25 hands of play.

You did hit the crucial issue, though: is Ted gonna make a tough call, or a tough laydown.

[renodoc]

Hmmm.. 1 hour levels and you survived the AA to have a 6K stack by the second hand....

You Jammed the turn on hand one and Ted folded.

Hand two I would probably fold, but then I have been a ..... WTP lately (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4102601&an=0&page=6#Post 4102601) I hope you called.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1. Ted has a huge range here. He could be bagging 66, he could have an overpair, 45, hearts, or really anything. I'm not too sure if he thinks you are on tilt here, and considering that he is one of the best players in the world it is highly likely that he has a pretty good read on you as you have played your hand like AA up to this point. I check fold this here I think. That said, the key element to this hand is if he thinks you are tilting or not, which you have stated is unknown to you.


[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder how good of a read forrest has. In my TV-only experience with him, he seems like a god amongst men, but folding AA to him in this spot would make him whatever the hell plays poker better than god.

So what happened? Could you get some more chips from hand 1? Did you survive hand 2?

[shaniac]

Hand one:

I did exactly what Strassa reccommended, fumbled with my chips and declared "allin." Ted went into a deep think. I eventually called a clock on him, which I don't think I've ever done while in a hand. Ted used the clock and folded, what he says (credibly) was JJ. He said "as soon as you called the clock I knew I was folding, just wanted to waste a minute of everyone's time." Wish I hadn't called the clock.

Hand two:

I called. She had 44.