I lost $9000

[Actuary]

In the third semifinal of the partypoker million, the field has gone from 1264 to 30 players. 25 Players are awarded the price worth $9000.

I have T45000 and it is the eigth smallest stack.

Blinds are $5000 - $10000.

My question really is: should I have tried to blind my way to 25'th place - folding everything? I have been in similar positions in the past and I am always in doubt.

Anyway - I look down at KK, I call a raise. Flops are rag, and I end up putting all my money in the pot. Opponent flop trips on river.

Should I have folded my kings ( I hade no reason to belive he had aces)?


Along the same lines in tournaments where top n plaves are paid the same: do you have any guidelines of when you should try to blind yourself in the money (as a function of blind size, number of opponents, number of prices paid)

Bear with my beginners questions
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[Rickfish]

Sounds like you may not have played it aggressively enough. If it was NL or PL I would go all-in. If it was Limit I'd raise straight back and keep betting or raising thereafter. Put the pressure back on them. Maybe you did this and were just unlucky. You only have 3 circuits of blinds before you are blinded away and the other small stacks may out-survive you if you refuse to play any hands.

[fnurt]

25th place paid $9,000?! Maybe I'm missing something.

In general finishing in the money is overrated. In a typical large tournament you don't hit "real" money until the final table. Barely squeaking into the money won't do much more than refund your entry fee.

While it's great to win something, you can't pass up a chance to win the big prizes just because you want to guarantee yourself a tiny prize. KK was a great opportunity and you had to play it.

[Actuary]

Nope it was the Partypoker million. 1-25 all recieved an entry to the cruise worth $9000.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Party Poker Million - one in 50 entries to the semis gets a cruise for 2 plus an entry into the Party Poker Million, value of package - $9,000

[fnurt]

Ohhhh if it's a supersatellite then it's a much tougher problem. There are 7 stacks smaller than you and you need 3 of them to bust out, I think to me it would depend on just how small they are. If a bunch of them rate to bust out in the next orbit, I'd probably fold anything here. If most of them are only a little smaller than you, I think you have to take this chance to double up and be assured of victory.

Now, that answer relates to calling a raise. If you're first into the pot and have the added chance of winning the blinds without a caller, it gets even tougher...

[punkass]

It's instinct to play passively when close to the bubble of a "top-n qualify" tournament. Because there is no incentive to gain chips once a huge chip lead, people who are pretty much set to qualify, will remain passive unless dealt AA, KK, QQ, or AK.
With your KK, I would have gone all in preflop if it was NL. Putting the pressure back on him (was he a big stack or a short stack?) is the best choice. If a short stack, he won't want to risk his remaining chips without a powerful hand, so there's a chance he folds his pocket pair (but probably will call), and if a big stack, he may be more timid to calling a big bet and sacrificing an otherwise sure situation where he can cruise into qualification.

All in all, this stage in the game is not the time to slowplay hands. Blinds are huge enough to steal and be happy with that.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I don't know. If you want a more exact answer for your specific situation, you need to supply the specifics. How short are the other stacks? How much are the big stacks playing? Are they just folding (as they often should), or are they still betting and raising? From this information you (we) can guesstimate your chances of making the final 25 by merely folding every hand dealt.

However, at a glance, I'd say you need to win at least one more big pot, or a couple of small pots (e.g., blind steals) to get into the final 25. That being the case, you should play this hand, and play it fast. Make it clear you have a big hand, and do whatever will be most likely to get them to fold before you're all-in.

It is quite possible that once you just called their raise preflop, they figured their pair was good, and that is why they were still there at the river to get lucky and catch their set. It is possible that if you 3-bet them preflop they would've folded on the flop or turn after missing. Or, it might mean that you would lose anyway, but the money would just have gone in earlier.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Copernicus]

Hi from another actuary. First, you have hit on what I think is the knottiest problem in tournament play...when to try and outpatient the other short stacks, vs playing solid hands.

Second, I think you left out a more than minor detail to some...while the top 25 got the 9k, I believe 26, 27 and 28 paid decent sums of residual cash relative to your buy in (which I assume was to win a $25 satellite?)...26 and 27 in the thousands wasnt it?

Not 9k, for sure...but for some a consideration.

The tournament was limit, so the responses about pre-flop all-ins apply only to those at your table who would be put all-in by the lower limit. Youre not going to get out any very big stacks, since they shouldnt care if they finish 1 or 25, and are playing for ego (and maybe some experience) only.

So, as I think it was fnurt said, the crux of the biscuit is how close are the others to blinding out, and are either of the blinds at your table some of the short stacks you are trying to outlast.

The worst error would, of course, be to give a very short-stacked blind a free ride, but thats not an issue here since there has already been a raise.

The next consideration is what makes this payout structure unique...those virtually locked into the top 25 are very unlikely to give the short stacks a free ride...they arent jockeying for small chip advantages. Thus you and other similarly sized short stacks are going to have to make it in with hands, not patience. Youre not going to get a better starting hand than this one, so unless there are a few others with stacks that are less than the blinds, you have to call the raise. (In a more tiered structure you may have some leverage over those trying to move up and raising again may have some folding equity).

You don't say how you wound up all-in. Calling it all the way down is probably the best thing you could have done. If you were raising at any point I think you were making a mistake.

Getting spiked on the river is a horrible way to go out when you were so close, and this hand probably would have put you over the top. Unfortunately in this payout and betting structure your hands were tied.

I was in it and washed out early (despite starting with $2k extra chips), saving the frustration. It was my first large tournament and I think I played it too much like a 1 or 2 table tournament. I played only very solid hands, played them aggressively, and got sucked out on by very loose callers. I didn't consider that early in the tournament there might be a lot of inexperienced tourney players playing more like a Party ring game, especially during the small blinds. In retrospect playing like a total rock early until the whales ate the krill (and becoming a whale too if the cards hit) might have been better than trying to build a stack early.

See you in Septembers semis. I wont make the same mistake (but I also probably wont have extra chips, since I dont play ring anymore, so not making the same mistake may be a mistake)!

[Lottery Larry]

i guess i have a lot to learn because my only thought was "what ELSE could you want to have here?"

i would go all-in preflop. tightening up on kings seems to me to give you only one type of hand to play and there is no guarantee that you will be able to outlast five other small stacks.

[PlanoPoker]

The next time this happens you should consider sticking around and actually seeing how many rotations go on your table before you would have made the money. My guess is that you woulda had to steal blinds a few times, which can get hairy if you get any action at all. I would try to make KK work for me here, without regret.

Again though, if you just watch the tournament play out you should get a general feel for it given all the circumstances involved.