Overheard a cheating braggart, snitch or no?

[BlindingLaser]

I attend the University of Illinois, and the curriculum for the Accounting major is such that I share a lot of my classes with the same people. So I'm in a small discussion section, just hanging out on my laptop waiting for class to begin, and overhear Guy telling Girl behind me about one of my other classes. She asks about the teacher, and his comment is "Kind of weird guy, doesn't really answer any questions...he only creates two forms for the exam and is the only one proctoring." He does not explicitly state that he cheated, but a little bit of induction, and he mentions "I need to get my GPA up to 3.0" adds up to 99% that he cheated on this morning's final exam.

The course has grade breaks that can be lowered if the entire class does poorly, I worked my tail off all semester to earn an A, and Guy just sat next to the smart people and peeked.

I have two questions: the first is, am I being peculiarly naive to have not expected to come across this already in my academic career? I always assumed it happened a little bit, and never actually had it happen around me, generally I only heard about academic dishonesty on problem sets and term papers.

Second is, do I snitch? My feeling is that it might just end up being my word against his, that I have nothing concrete (he did not actually say "I cheated on this exam"), and that it's basically not worth my effort. I have some indignation over this, though: this was not an easy course, and I really earned my A (and have some outside shot of needing a slight curve to make sure it's a flat A, which, ironically, *I* need for my 3.0).

Anyways, I'm still in the class right now, I could even just bring it up to the guy, although that seems like an even worse idea, I don't think anything good could come of it. My other thought was, I have a final exam in this class, if he cheats on everything, he'd probably cheat in here, I could mention it to this professor and have her look out for it.

Thanks OOT! Yes, I searched: I found similar situations (Help cheat on SATs, rat out drug dealer) but nothing too similar: this guy is a total stranger to me, and as a result of a bell curve, is in indirect competition with me.

[CollinEstes]

I can't really give a good answer since I was the one talking about cheating on the SAT. But for me if you snitch then your a bitch is kind of a general rule for me. I know confronting him is hard to do but is really the way a man would handle it.

[wh1t3bread]

Don't snitch. No real good will come of it. Let that guy cheat through college. Who cares? Eventually he will enter the real world with less than adequate knowledge for his field and will be smacked down hard. He'll get his in the end.

Just my $0.02.

[BlindingLaser]

Sorry, I meant to add the following: my guess is that trying to rat just costs me a lot of time, and that talking to him would be useless, because if he's gotten this far doing it this way, he's not going to change his ways because some nerdy looking kid tells him not to cheat. My default here was to not rock the boat, but if stepping up is the play in some way or another, that's what I'm asking.

[fluxrad]

[ QUOTE ]
But for me if you snitch then your a bitch is kind of a general rule for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see you cheated on the English portion of the SAT.

To the OP - I would probably turn the guy in if I had proof that he cheated. This is college, and his artificially high grade can, in some circumstances, lower yours or have an otherwise negative effect (no matter how small) on your college career. However, since you simply overheard a confession I don't think you've got enough to warrant ratting him out. For now you can't really do much beside being pissed and remembering that this guy's a bitch if you meet him later in life.

[samjjones]

Its possible that you and everybody else in the class would be forced to re-take the test, and the professor would likely be a dick the rest of the semester regardless. I saw this happen firsthand. Let it go.

[CollinEstes]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't snitch. No real good will come of it. Let that guy cheat through college. Who cares? Eventually he will enter the real world with less than adequate knowledge for his field and will be smacked down hard. He'll get his in the end.

Just my $0.02.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really think that is true. What about courses like Philosophy or History for a guy that going to be a chemical engineer. Cheating in those courses would not affect his on the job performance. Just like I cheated on the SAT to get into a better school than I could have and I did fine there.

[SL__72]

No.

[wh1t3bread]

Well the original post mentions an accounting class I thought (I could be wrong and I don't feel like re-reading). I really doubt a history major or music major will be taking an accounting course, no?

I really didn't have to deal with this in college because most of my classes either had around 20 people in them, or were so easy that it wasn't worth worrying about. My girlfriend, on the other hand, has this same problem, and it pisses me off to hear her say people are doing this. You may say never be a snitch, but the cheaters are definitely detracting from your overall grade by boosting their grade if the teacher uses a curve. I tell my girlfriend that she should notify the teacher that people ARE cheating on the tests, but not to say who. I would consider naming names if it were me... they are hurting your grade, and if you don't know them, screw 'em.

[tdarko]

i didn't read any replies nor did i read your entire post (i read the first paragraph).

my philosophy is that life is a lot easier when you worry about yourself and stay out of other people's business. its really that easy. good luck.

[CollinEstes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But for me if you snitch then your a bitch is kind of a general rule for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see you cheated on the English portion of the SAT.

To the OP - I would probably turn the guy in if I had proof that he cheated. This is college, and his artificially high grade can, in some circumstances, lower yours or have an otherwise negative effect (no matter how small) on your college career. However, since you simply overheard a confession I don't think you've got enough to warrant ratting him out. For now you can't really do much beside being pissed and remembering that this guy's a bitch if you meet him later in life.

[/ QUOTE ]



Got me there.

[BlindingLaser]

This guy is an Accounting major, he mentioned the Master's in Accounting Science program when discussing his cheats with his friend, but the course in question is "The Legal Environnment of Business," ironically enough, one which brings up some ethical/legal questions.

[CollinEstes]

[ QUOTE ]
Well the original post mentions an accounting class I thought (I could be wrong and I don't feel like re-reading). I really doubt a history major or music major will be taking an accounting course, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

No but a Marketing major would, in any event a think the majority of college courses don't directly influence your ability to perform X job.

[Randy_Refeld]

I would snitch in your position. Typically grades are assigned based on how your scores relate to the other people in the class (varies by prof of course), so he isn't just helping himself by cheating he is hurting everyone in the class.

[housenuts]

Whatcha gon' do when sh1t the fan
Take it like a man or snitch like a bitch
Whatcha gon' do when sh1t hit the fan
Pray to God, go hard, or lay up in the morgue

[gamblore99]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't really give a good answer since I was the one talking about cheating on the SAT. But for me if you snitch then your a bitch is kind of a general rule for me. I know confronting him is hard to do but is really the way a man would handle it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the bitch. People like me and OP bust our asses getting good grades only to see some lazy cheater get a better mark without doing any work. Wanting what we entitled to is not bitchy, its justice. People who cheat [censored] the hard workers over, expecially when competing for grad school. If you are ratted out for cheating, blame your stupid lazy self.

[BlindingLaser]

Randy: There's a flat grading scale, if I get an X on the final and total a Y in the course, I will always earn my A. However, in the event that the average is centered at, say, 70, instead of the nice 80 mean that the usual bell curves have, he'd use natural breaks and create a new grading progression, but never such that it'd hurt me.

[CollinEstes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't really give a good answer since I was the one talking about cheating on the SAT. But for me if you snitch then your a bitch is kind of a general rule for me. I know confronting him is hard to do but is really the way a man would handle it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the bitch. People like me and OP bust our asses getting good grades only to see some lazy cheater get a better mark without doing any work. Wanting what we entitled to is not bitchy, its justice. People who cheat [censored] the hard workers over, expecially when competing for grad school. If you are ratted out for cheating, blame your stupid lazy self.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never got caught cheating and didn't really cheat in college. I needed to get 150 more points on my SAT to get into Dartmouth to play baseball. I took two seperate courses and did my best but still needed 50 more. They take the best composite score so I did what I had to do. Most people that cheat don't make A's anyway they cheat and gets Cs and maybe Bs so if you are such a hard worker and get As then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[The once and future king]

If he cheated and got away with it then surely the next move is buy him a beer and ask him how he did it.

At an English university you would be considered total filth by the rest of the student body if you ratted someone out like that. The ratting would be seen as a lot lot worse than the cheating.

[housenuts]

[ QUOTE ]

At an English university you would be considered total filth by the rest of the student body if you ratted someone out like that. The ratting would be seen as a lot lot worse than the cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would much rather be friends with a cheat than a rat anyday of the week.

[BeerMoney]

Proving academic dishonesty is usually very hard. Doesn't sound like you have much of a case.

[Riverman]

I went to Princeton and there was a good amount of cheating. I would never rat anyone out although it is frustrating to witness, especially when its obvious that their behavior will never "catch up to them."

Just make peace with your own choices and don't worry about things you can't control.

[CollinEstes]

I do have to say though that if the dude was bragging about cheating he deserves to get caught. I mean anyone that really cheats knows that the student next to them catching them is about as bad as the teacher catching them.

I may be against ratting but at the same time I agree that you have to do what you have to do. If turning him in will for sure help your score then do it if you need that grade. Do what you gotta do, to achieve whatever your goal is. I may be embodying everything that is wrong in America but I now have a good job lined up and my wife will be able to be a stay-at-home mom. So I have no regrets.

[Rduke55]

Tell the teacher. Screw that guy. And screw the mafia-wannabe attitude on many in this thread (I ain't no stoolie). This guy isn't your pal. Besides the fact you busted your ass all semester, you said it yourself - he can actually hurt you with his cheating.

P.S. I'm badmouthing the attitude. Personally I'm sure you're all charming and wonderful.

[DoomSlice]

At my school your life is basically ruined if you are caught cheating... do you really want to ruin someone's life just so you can be _sure_ that you get an A?

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
At my school your life is basically ruined

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. Hardly any people caught cheating get expelled, etc.

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
At my school your life is basically ruined if you are caught cheating... do you really want to ruin someone's life just so you can be _sure_ that you get an A?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really want to risk not getting an A because some douche decided to cheat?

The cheater has already voluntarily assumed the risk of getting his school career ruined when he decided to cheat.

Why should those around him feel compelled to assume any risk to protect his lazy ass?

[CieloAzor]

If people would bother to read what the man said, they'd notice his grades cannot be hurt by the "possible" cheater. Your case is pretty weak and there's no reason to rat this guy out.

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
If people would bother to read what the man said, they'd notice his grades cannot be hurt by the "possible" cheater. Your case is pretty weak and there's no reason to rat this guy out.

[/ QUOTE ]

On principle. And schadenfruede.

[Blarg]

I really don't think you should listen to what anybody says, and I think you should just do whatever you want.

You're going to hear a lot of self-justifying arguments, some from ex-cheats or similar character types, about being more sharing and caring to cheats, who when there's a curve are basically screwing you over and don't give a rats ass about you. F*ck 'em. F*ck 'em to the skies, man.

Having some sort of community feeling group hug mentality toward these guys is absurd. They're not on your side. You gain nothing from appeasing some sort of sense of playground justice by not snitching.

That type of morality is made for sheep, for suckers.

If people are going to try to get ahead unfairly, you can't be criticized for trying to get ahead fairly by doing a little something to keep the playing field honest, not tilted. It's the guys who are cheating who have something to answer for, not the guys who are getting cheated. And if the game is that serious that some people feel they have to bust out their cheat weapon, you're justified in busting out some weapons of your own.

This type of reverse morality is the greatest gift a wolf can give a sheep. It helps him feel good about being eaten.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

If you're interested I can point you in the direction of some useful information. My alma mater is pretty hard core with our honor code, and I have read plenty of philosophy and case-studies on this subject. For personal reasons, I will reserve my comments on your particular issue for a more personal setting.

[uw_madtown]

Unless you're leaving significant portions of what the dude said out, it doesn't even sound that convincing that he cheated.

If you think you have enough evidence to bring to the prof, then I think you should definitely say something....if for no other reason, maybe the prof will keep an eye on this kid.

I think most people have to deal with this in college. I had a girl ask me where she could buy a paper. I had one of my classmates fail out because he forgot to erase the real author's name in a computer program assignment. I had one girl lean over and blatantly look at my friend's test answers, to which he shouted out "why are you looking at my test?!" That was fun. Cheating is prevalent in college, what can I say. I doubt there will be a real resolution unless your cheater friend gets busted in the act. GL

ScottieK

Lol, this happened to me just yesterday. After finishing up my sociology exam (I worked my ass off all semester just to get a B, I've had to do more notetaking and reviewing for that class than any other by far) I had to take a leak. When I'm taking care of my bidness, 2 kids from my class walked in the bathroom and one was thanking the other for putting his scantron sheet in an easily viewable position for him. I never really talked to the kids all semester, and I'm definitely not a snitch, but I did get a little ticked off just b/c of all the studying and crap I had to do for this class, and this kid bypassed all of that hard work. I mean, we've all cheated b4, but with the shoe on the other foot, I understand now why professors make more than one form for exams.

[swede123]

Never snitch. That's all.

Swede

[highlife]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't really give a good answer since I was the one talking about cheating on the SAT. But for me if you snitch then your a bitch is kind of a general rule for me. I know confronting him is hard to do but is really the way a man would handle it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the bitch. People like me and OP bust our asses getting good grades only to see some lazy cheater get a better mark without doing any work. Wanting what we entitled to is not bitchy, its justice. People who cheat [censored] the hard workers over, expecially when competing for grad school. If you are ratted out for cheating, blame your stupid lazy self.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never got caught cheating and didn't really cheat in college. I needed to get 150 more points on my SAT to get into Dartmouth to play baseball. I took two seperate courses and did my best but still needed 50 more. They take the best composite score so I did what I had to do. Most people that cheat don't make A's anyway they cheat and gets Cs and maybe Bs so if you are such a hard worker and get As then you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its awesome that basically your entire life after highschool is based on cheating. That will be a sweet story to tell your kids.

[StacysMom]

Only got through half of the replies... First, I think I took the Legal Environment of Business. It was a really intersting class. DOes the Prof look a bit like Santa?

Second, if the class is on a curve. I snitich. If not, I wouldnt. And yes, both of these have happended to me and I have followed my own advice. The fact that you don't have a direct admission doesnt matter. Let the Prof deal with what you have how they see fit. Tell him you overheard this guy implying he cheated on the exam. If the prof wants to investigate he will, you did your part.

As for the exam coming up. Again I consider curve/no curve. Curve, I tip off the Prof this guy cheated on another exam, you may wish to keep an eye on him.

As for retaking an exam, I cannot imagine this happening during scheduled finals week ever at U of I. aka non issue.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
Never snitch. That's all.

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

There is NO way that this is a correct, absolute, statement.

[The Truth]

Could somebody link me to the cheating on the SAT thread?

thanks
blake

OP,

[censored] him over somehow. f the haters

[swede123]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Never snitch. That's all.

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

There is NO way that this is a correct, absolute, statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it isn't. Obviously you'd snitch if you saw your neighbor kidnap or harm a child etc. But when it comes to this setting I would never snitch on a fellow student to a teacher, no matter what. Is that any clearer?

Swede

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Never snitch. That's all.

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

There is NO way that this is a correct, absolute, statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Absolutist statements are usually a little shaky, and this one is a model of how poorly thought out they can be.

Anyone gonna watch "Codebreakers" on ESPN?

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At my school your life is basically ruined

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. Hardly any people caught cheating get expelled, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you know what school he goes to?

One of my friends goes to the air force academy and they take cheating insanely seriously. If you get caught you're [censored] and if you know someone who cheated and you don't tell, and someone knows this and then rats the guy and you out, you can also get in trouble for breaking the honor code or whatever.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
Could somebody link me to the cheating on the SAT thread?

thanks
blake

[/ QUOTE ]

that thread didnt actually discuss the ethics of it that much, most of it was about $$$. but it actually kind of feels good to me that I screwed over 95% of the SAT population out of .01% of a percentile.

[JihadOnTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Never snitch. That's all.

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

There is NO way that this is a correct, absolute, statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it isn't. Obviously you'd snitch if you saw your neighbor kidnap or harm a child etc. But when it comes to this setting I would never snitch on a fellow student to a teacher, no matter what. Is that any clearer?

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, much. However, please imagine a scenario (no "that could never happen," this is a philisophical hypothetic) in which you were up for a life changing award, i.e. massive scholarship, entrance into excellent program of some sort, et cetera. You and 1 other person. He gets in, you're assed out, you find out he cheated. Still an absolute?

As bad of a person as I appear on these forums, the issue of honor is very important to me. I enjoy these discussions.

Truthfully,
-Jihad

[The Truth]

I actually have alot of friends that cheat off of me in several different classes. They use lots of methods to cheat besides just look at my work, but mainly any opportunity they get they just copy my work as closely as possible. They'll come by my house and copy my homework on the days we have to turn it in etc.

It doesn't bother me in the least.

Why?

Cause good [censored] luck ever getting further than me in anything thats why. Also, it makes for lots of good favors. Pretty much anything ya want.

Plus if the [censored] ever hit the fan, I feel that I would be a more effective cheater than everyone else. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

However, If it bothers you, go drop a line to the teacher, tell him to look out. Or slap the guy like hes a child outside of class, and tell him if you see him cheating you'll eat his soul (or something equally hard core). If you say this, you must actually mean it.

(this 2nd part doesn't even really require you to be able to beat the guy up, as he'll most likely punk out. If he doesn't punk out and you can't take him, just tell him you'll turn him in if he beats you up, then run away.)

blake

[MyTurn2Raise]

PM me with details

I attended UofI and did accy. BS in '02, MAS in '03. PhD student from Fall '03 to Fall '04. I know many of the professors and students. I TA'd Accy 304 and caught many a fiend. Most are just small time things that lead to a slap on the wrist.

Honestly, you do not have much 'hard' proof. Very little will happen to the student. You can only make the professors aware of shortcomings in their monitoring.

Legal Enviro of Buss...is this the introductory or the second level one Rostenkowski (sp?) teaches?

[BlindingLaser]

Re: Evidence...these are not verbatim, but close, at various points he says, "The professor only makes two forms for the exam, and is the only one walking around for it...I really need to do well in that class, I need to bring my GPA up to a 3.0 for the semester...I made sure to sit by the smart kids." So no, he doesn't actually say "I cheated," but I'm 99% that he did.

To StacysMom: his name is Rozkowski, he's probably like mid to late 50s with slightly thinning white hair, about six feet and looks like he used to box, and wears a shirt and tie every day. He carries an umbrella any day it even looks like rain, and ignores anybody who tries to interrupt his lecture with a question.

The class is over, so I can't do anything about it for this class except tell the professor what I heard. I can, however, warn a professor for a different class I have with the guy.

Beating the guy up is not an option...I'd put him on about fifty pounds heavier and a couple inches taller, plus I haven't seen a gym in about five years and this guy looks like a regular.

Edit: To MyTurn, it's his intro one, I really enjoyed it. This is all I really have in the way of details though, I can get Guy's name off the class roster for my small section I have with him, if it's of any use to you, but my understanding is I've got nothing, here.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
If he cheated and got away with it then surely the next move is buy him a beer and ask him how he did it.

At an English university you would be considered total filth by the rest of the student body if you ratted someone out like that. The ratting would be seen as a lot lot worse than the cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who gives a sh*t.

And nobody has to know.

From the description of the way the OP first got the idea cheating might be going on, it sounds like nobody would know.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Never snitch. That's all.

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

There is NO way that this is a correct, absolute, statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it isn't. Obviously you'd snitch if you saw your neighbor kidnap or harm a child etc. But when it comes to this setting I would never snitch on a fellow student to a teacher, no matter what. Is that any clearer?

Swede

[/ QUOTE ]

It was never unclear. It just had no moral clarity.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

At an English university you would be considered total filth by the rest of the student body if you ratted someone out like that. The ratting would be seen as a lot lot worse than the cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would much rather be friends with a cheat than a rat anyday of the week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right up untill he developes a coke habit and your TV dissapears.

[lastchance]

The biggest key here is that you got nothing. If you have concrete proof someone is cheating, and it's really messing you up, than go for it.

[tolbiny]

"I can, however, warn a professor for a different class I have with the guy."

This seems like a reasonable play. Drop a note to the other professor- if he cheats on that test he gets what he deserves. I would probably just say- i believe person x is likely to cheat on his final.

[The once and future king]

If you go to university and don't learn how to game the system then you are not preparing yourself for the real world.

Yes you can follow all the rules like a good little boy/sheep/sucker, but in the real world especially in business you will have to be more a lot more ruthless and alert to "opportunities" to get ahead of your rivals.

I am only referring back to English university, but if you didn't look for a way to cheat then you would have been considered dumb and a total girly swot. If you ratted out someone who had found an exploit then you would have been lower than whale meat.

However it must be said that grades are not relative to the achievements of other students in UK marking system.

[DoomSlice]

Ok. We actually have to sign a contract that says if you cheat or let someone cheat off of you, then you get expelled. Harsh enough?