$60 Lvl 8 - Do I understand pushbotting?

*********** # 61 **************
PokerStars Game #3273742477: Tournament #16205664, Hold'em No Limit -
Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/12/08 - 03:40:34 (ET)
Table '16205664 1' Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: AK_fortynine (3110 in chips)
Seat 3: brett66 (1355 in chips)
Seat 4: oleastre (3040 in chips)
Seat 5: nickyneverlo (1575 in chips)
Seat 7: FourDucks5 (2535 in chips)
Seat 9: suzzer99 (1885 in chips)
(antes)
oleastre: posts small blind 200
nickyneverlo: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to suzzer99 [Js Kd]
FourDucks5: folds
suzzer99: raises 1460 to 1860 and is all-in
AK_fortynine: folds
brett66: folds
oleastre: calls 1660
nickyneverlo: folds
*** RIVER *** [As Qd 5d Qh] [2h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
oleastre: shows [Kc Ah] (two pair, Aces and Queens)
suzzer99: shows [Js Kd] (a pair of Queens)
oleastre collected 4270 from pot
brett66 said, "gg"


This was kind of weird game in that I think there were 7 or 8 left on lvl 7 and 6 left here on lvl 8. So it's just kamikaze poker at this point. Should I just fold KJo here w/4 left to act? I can't see calling or minraising or anything other than pushing.

[pooh74]

I wouldnt sweat it. Its a good push IMO.

[mlagoo]

stranderd.

Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would advocate anything other than pushing here?

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would advocate anything other than pushing here?

[/ QUOTE ]

With blinds that high, you're a one trick pony.

[pooh74]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks. That's kind of what I thought. Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would advocate anything other than pushing here?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you somehow knew that in all of the next 4 orbits, you'd get a walk in the BB, you could...naw, nevermind, still push...

Thanks. I wonder if this is the future of high-level SNGs, if everyone starts playing the standard 2+2/ Tic-Tac-Toe (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=mediumholdem&Number=39571 04&Searchpage=1&Main=3956289&Words=%26quot%3Btic+t ac+toe%26quot%3B&topic=&Search=true#Post3957104) style. Nothing but "surviving" the early levels, then a 6-way crapshoot at level 7+. Hmmmm.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks. I wonder if this is the future of high-level SNGs, if everyone starts playing the standard 2+2/ Tic-Tac-Toe (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=mediumholdem&Number=39571 04&Searchpage=1&Main=3956289&Words=%26quot%3Btic+t ac+toe%26quot%3B&topic=&Search=true#Post3957104) style. Nothing but "surviving" the early levels, then a 6-way crapshoot at level 7+. Hmmmm.

[/ QUOTE ]

We've been through this a few times...

1.) It's not as easy as many seem to think to pushbot correctly

2.) There is still poker to be played in the early/middle levels. Those who "sit out" these levels are giving up EV. If I remember right, a few people bitched in a post about how they couldn't get past 7-8% ROI at the lower buyins, and it turned out they were all pushbotting.

3.) Tables full of strong players do happen, and it's -EV. Oh well. If it becomes common, we'll all go play something else.

Thanks pineapple.

#1 - I am finding out, as I'm relatively new to the concept.

#2 - I definitely meant something different by "surviving" than "sit out". Only play premium hands early, look for spots mid, etc. But like I said in a game w/o a few guys who call a raise preflop with AJ, then call all the way down with top pair (and similar plays), I think you get to a lot more crapshoots in the later levels.

#3 - yup

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
#2 - I definitely meant something different by "surviving" than "sit out". Only play premium hands early, look for spots mid, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, but that's not pushbotting...

Anyway, I agree that if there are not 2 or more fish at a table, it's not worth it.

Some think the 215s are already to that point, at least off-peak hours.

So you are saying that pushbotters don't play premium hands early, or that they don't look for any +eV plays mid-tourney, or both?

I hope that doesn't sound like I'm being a nit, I'm honestly asking.

[Sciolist]

A lot of pushbotting - and infact the general approach advocated here - involves playing pretty weak tight early on, and that's open to abuse by players who know that's what they're doing. I think we'll probably end up at the point where it's not worth playing SNG anymore, but based on the fact I am having a lot of trouble in the $30s, that isn't going to matter to me until I improve a lot more :]

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying that pushbotters don't play premium hands early, or that they don't look for any +eV plays mid-tourney, or both?

I hope that doesn't sound like I'm being a nit, I'm honestly asking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Link (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=singletable&Number=397798 8&Searchpage=1&Main=3977537&Words=pushbot+pineappl e888&topic=&Search=true#Post3977988)

[bones]

Enough of these [censored] threads already. "Pushbotting" isn't some lifestyle. It's half-joking slang about, and here's a surprise, pushing on the bubble. It has nothing to do with early game play. I'm pretty sure raptor coined the phrase to describe doing it on many tables at once.

It's not some zen state of mind. It's moving all your chips in when it's +EV to do so. If you're wondering what constitutes a +EV push, buy sngpt and actually use it.

You mean it's not enough to just buy sngpt? I actually have to use it? I want my money back.