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View Full Version : PS 180 players - FT 5 players 55 UTG


12-08-2005, 04:32 PM
Blinds 1500-3000

Nobody plays too many hands or steals a lot, couple times folded around.

CL has 100k, 1 at 20k, other 2 at 40-50k (like me).

I raise to 9000. (Is that the good move?)

UTG+1 re-raises all-in. All fold.

If I call I am at best 50-50 but could be 4.5/1

9000+3000+1500 750 (antes) + raise of 40k = 54,250.

It costs me 31k to call (but I get small stack if I loose (10k) and the blinds hit me next hands.

Call or Fold?

12-08-2005, 04:35 PM
what are payouts for the top 5 places?

12-08-2005, 04:39 PM
1080
720
480
280
240

Something like that

12-08-2005, 04:40 PM
Given the way you describe the table, I'd fold. More importantly, though, I'd know what I was going to do before I raised here. If I were raising, it would be because I had some specific reason to think I'd take it pre-flop. Tou should know whose all-ins you can call and whose you can't before you raise and avoid putting yourself in spots where you're committed to call a push you really, really don't want to have to call. Jason Strasser had a very good post on this subject a while back, sorry I couldn't find it using search.

12-08-2005, 04:58 PM
If I'm reading this right UTG+1 has a stack of 40k at the start of the hand and yours is at 50k?

If you lose the hand you play with 10k, if you win the hand you play on with 95k and you have 41k by folding. You said that nobody is really stealing much. That's why this reraise worries me. You could be 50/50 here - or you could also be a 4:1 underdog against a bigger pair.

The blinds hitting next hand are also a factor to consider. If you lose this hand you are left with 3bb and one of them is in for the BB. You're pretty much comitted to the next hand no matter what you're dealt if you lose this one. I'd fold and pick a better spot. You have >13bb left by folding and that's still a playable stack.

Solitare
12-08-2005, 05:10 PM
If you read the table as tight, raising 55 UTG with the primary goal of stealing is OK, I think. Facing a re-raise, I'd fold (unless pot odds for hitting a set require a call) and wait for a better spot.

On a less tight table with 5 left and UTG, I would play 88-99+ with the inention of calling an all-in. With 99 you are ahead of non-pairs, and for pairs, there are as many larger you are behind as smaller that you are ahead so they even out.

mlagoo
12-08-2005, 05:10 PM
initial raise is cool, i probably dump it to the reraise. its not even as though it was the blinds raising you back.. it was the very next dude, with 3 players left to act. his range is way ahead of you, and i dont think the pot is laying you good enough odds to justify it.

Mez
12-08-2005, 05:26 PM
I'd fold, especially if the table is as tight as you say. Once the button passes you, you should be open raising often for the above reason.

12-08-2005, 05:36 PM
Cut down on your raise preflop. 9000 is like 20-25% of your stack. Everyone else has the same problem you do, the blinds are too big to do much. There gonna respect a min raise or like 7,000 just as much as a 9,000 raise preflop, especially since your not too loose in stealing. By minimizing your raise you save at least 2,000 preflop and at least another 2,000 when you make a continuation bet on the flop which equates to about 10% of your stack and you'll be left with more if the reraise does happen since its easier to fold now. If the player has been tight your not getting very good odds so I'd muck as well.

Exitonly
12-08-2005, 06:26 PM
i think you can raise less PF to accomplish the same thing, then you'll be less tempted to play the pot to a push, and you'll avoid playing a big pot in a race situation.

i raise to 7500.

but after raising to 9000 bleh. i think it's probably +cEV to call, but assuming you can finish this out decently well, probably -EV to call.

Call:
45% Win: ~100k, ~33BB's
55% Lose: ~10k, 3BB's
Fold:
100% ~40k, ~13BB's

bah, that's a tough spot. i dunno. i want to say fold.

mlagoo
12-08-2005, 06:31 PM
i think your equity is more like:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 41.6033 % 41.31% 00.29% { 55 }
Hand 2: 58.3967 % 58.11% 00.29% { 66+, A8s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo }

and i think thats a pretty loose range for UTG+1 facing an UTG raise. this looks like a fold to me =/

12-08-2005, 07:07 PM
The problem in this hand and at this level, is that the blinds are so high, but I still don't want to min-raise ( I really think it's a bad play). A raise to 7500 would be better and will now be my raise under these situations.

With 55, I want to take it pre-flop. If I am called, the pot will be 25000 or 20000 (if called by a blind) so my CB has to be at least 10k.

With 7,5k raise, the pot will be 20k or 16k, so my CB has to be at least 9k.

That helps...

12-08-2005, 08:11 PM
This is a tough call. His range of hands probably puts you roughly about a 2-1 underdog. On the other hand, the pot is offering you roughly 1.8-1 if you call. You can't really make a decision this way, so you need to look at other angles. How imporant is the money to you? Are you looking to only move up, or are you looking to win? If the latter is the case, you may want to take a risk here to add to your stack and set yourself up nicely to make a run at 1st. Overall, I think a fold here is your best option. The pot just isn't quite biog enough, and you're virtually crippling yourself if you call and lose. I think you're still in a good enough position if you fold that you can find a better spot down the road.