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View Full Version : Playing from the blinds: QTs

Scuba Chuck
12-08-2005, 02:36 AM
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

BB (t990)
UTG (t845)
UTG+1 (t715)
MP1 (t775)
MP2 (t755)
MP3 (t1245)
CO (t1160)
Button (t600)
Hero (t915)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t60) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t60</font>
bluef0x
12-08-2005, 02:39 AM
Fine to me. Also valid to check and call a small raise I feel.
benza13
12-08-2005, 03:25 AM
Seems pretty standard to me.
Scuba Chuck
12-08-2005, 11:57 AM
The only reason I posted this hand, is how do you view it differently from the 93o hand (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=4135314&amp;an=0&amp;page=2#Post 4135314) I posted?
bluef0x
12-08-2005, 12:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The only reason I posted this hand, is how do you view it differently from the 93o hand (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=4135314&amp;an=0&amp;page=2#Post 4135314) I posted?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mind the first raise there- you are going to be good most of the time. In fact, I rather raise that hand than this one. However his reraise is kind of scary... obviously he doesn't care what you have- he probably has you outkicked.
bluefeet
12-08-2005, 12:07 PM
What do you do when the flop comes...

Flop: (t60) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero ????</font>

I'm asking, because I'm probably looking too often for c-raise opportunities as a more terminating effect on some flops (number of opponents, lead sizes, etc., etc. dependant of course).

In a situation where your flop lead stands a better chance of getting called, how eager are we to still lead here?
bluef0x
12-08-2005, 12:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What do you do when the flop comes...

Flop: (t60) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero ????</font>

I'm asking, because I'm probably looking too often for c-raise opportunities as a more terminating effect on some flops (number of opponents, lead sizes, etc., etc. dependant of course).

In a situation where your flop lead stands a better chance of getting called, how eager are we to still lead here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not eager to lead if I'm going to get called. Whenever I hit one of these flops I want to take it down... a C/R is good to do that when it checks around to LP who minraises. Other than that, you're most likely check/folding because he will bet out more than a minraise.
12-08-2005, 12:19 PM
Seems normal to me.

I wonder, though, why you choose to bet here, but try for a check-raise with the KJ hand?
ZeroPointMachine
12-08-2005, 12:23 PM
The biggest difference between this hand and the 93o hand is the number of overcards. When your flop bet gets called there are so many more overcards to hit on the turn and no effective way to tell if you are ahead which often leads to a free river and another overcard.
bluefeet
12-08-2005, 12:25 PM
See three posts up. I made that post before reading the KJ...having now read it, my concern has been addressed.
12-08-2005, 12:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]

See three posts up. I made that post before reading the KJ...having now read it, my concern has been addressed.

[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you're more likely to check-raise when there is a potential flush draw. Is that right?
bluefeet
12-08-2005, 01:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

See three posts up. I made that post before reading the KJ...having now read it, my concern has been addressed.

[/ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you're more likely to check-raise when there is a potential flush draw. Is that right?

[/ QUOTE ]


That's probably putting it in too tidy a package, but opting for this line vs. leading "when you stand a better chance of getting called with a lead" makes sense.

Of course leading is definitive. "I led, your turn...". Finding a flop/situation where leading isn't so easy, isn't replaced necessarily with a tail-wagging "one of you lead please, I'm fixin to check-raise". Considering the number of opponents, where the lead came from, the size of the lead, etc. can/should change your course of action.

That's the conundrum (1st time using that word I think) of chosing these lines OOP on hands like this. Leading has risks, with a call and need/desire to continue on what could be a scary turn street. Heck, it's scary no matter what the turn is, continuing OOP. The PLAN to check-raise is often aborted because the action behind your check. In some cases causing you to be unable to continue in a hand you might perhaps would have gained value in by leading. Not to mention the pesky reraise, or worse yet, the dreaded call.

Personally, I find myself taking the check-raise line often without fully considering some of the thoughts above.

Leading takes a little more finesse (here, and/or on later streets). But undoubtably a correct line - in more cases than I give it credit for I think.