Open-ened question: turn raises & c/rs

I am not sure if it's the games I have been playing or maybe I am just getting a weird sample from the "norm" 1-2 6max games, but more and more I have been been seeing turn raises and check-raises when a seemingly innocent card peels. So my question is, how does one go about handling this? I will break this question down per reads:

Non-aggressive opponenent:

When a non-aggressive opponent c/rs me on the turn, I am usually looking for a reason to fold. What comes to mind is usually that the villian just made 2-pair or trips. So, how often should I be calling down with a decent show-downable hand like top-pair vs. tossing and waiting for a better line ? If the pot is sizely, I will usually see a showdown, but how good does my hand have to be against a seemingly typical passive 6max opponent? At what pot size do you decide it's worth 2 big bets for a showdown?

Aggressive opponents -

Against aggressive opponents, what should I be looking for when deciding to call down? A lot of opponents (aggressive or not) turn-raise for a number of reasons: just made a set, just made 2-pair, just picked up a flush draw, feeling spunky, their ex just called them on the phone, they just lost a big hand on another table ... etc.

For example, let's say I open from hijack with AJ, button calls and BB completes. Flop comes Q J 2. BB checks I bet, button folds, BB calls. Turn comes a 5. BB checks, I bet BB raises ...

In this situation it seems that if I were going to call down with top pair, it would make sense to call down with middle pair as well. In other words, if I have the villian beat with a Q, 2nd-pair top kicker probably has him beat as well as most aggressive opponents don't have top pair in their "check/call-check/raise" range - they will either make this play as a bluff, semi-bluff or with a monster.

I guess I am confused on the best way to handle these situations with marginal to decent hands and I would appreciate any tips on how people handle them (other than "it is read-dependent, call down aggresive opponents").

to be honest i think your thought process is already very good, there isnt too much to add. try posting a few hands as examples and see what responses you get. in the AJ hand for instance, i would need to see the pot size (i cbf working it out) to see if we had the odds to improve.

as a general rule i think it is worth the extra 2BB for metagame considerations, you dont want to be attacked for being weak/tight throughout your session.

[bottomset]

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as a general rule i think it is worth the extra 2BB for metagame considerations, you dont want to be attacked for being weak/tight throughout your session

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I disagree at .5/1, 1/2, 2/4 the vast majority of opponents don't pay attention, so its not a good idea to calldown in a definite -EV immediately situation to prevent them from taking shots in the future, if they do start adjust and calldown more liberally(or flop/turn better /images/graemlins/smile.gif) bring up PT and look at the # of ppl you have less than 20hands with, ppl change tables very frequently

OP: the first thing you consider is your odds on a calldown, assuming you aren't superstrong and have an easy 3bet, if its HU, look at it as the size of the pot after the raise +1BB then divide it by 2, thats the breakeven point, often in the 5/2-9/2 range then look at the board possible draws, 2pr combos, and replay the preflop action .. if the BB is raising the turn, and it was unraised pretty much any combo is possible including the nice J2, 73 etc if the pot was raised preflop, or its a nonblind player raising, generally the total garbage 2pair hands can be discarded(unless the player is supersuperloose) if the turn card doesn't add a draw, or isn't a card that makes easy 2pair combos then the odds of a flop slowplay go way up .. if the board is totally raggy, and the player is passive I'd fold most 1pair hands comfortably .. unless I'm getting a good price

Aggressive players like to bluff scare cards, but rarely pop you on a total rag so getting c/r on a brick I tend to give more credit to than if its a 2nd flush card, overcard etc .. I think a lot of it comes with experience and practice, and there isn't a set in stone hand stregnth to calldown with, that you fold anything weaker .. its really player/situation based .. and one of the biggest reads you can get about a player is what they are capable of raising the turn with(and the board they raised/turn card)

at 1/2 I think you are better off not looking up a lot of c/r because most players are strong there, as I've moved up, I've seen a lot more bluffraises, weak pair get you to fold the best hand raises

I've joked that in my first 1000 hands of 5/10 I saw more bluff-raises than I did in 15k of 1/2 6max and its prob right

so my best advice locate the players that do bluff a lot, and generally give credit to the unknowns at 1/2

also get a good understanding of counterfeiting outs, and how that can change the situation like QQ on a JT32 board has 8outs against JT(assuming no FDs) also its easier to counterfeit someone when you have an overpair, than when you have toppair(AJ just has 3outs in the previous example)

[tyler_cracker]

bottomset: thanks for this post. Getting check/raised on the turn is a persistent problem for me and everyone else, and it's nice to see a nice summary of the issues.

OP:

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If the pot is sizely

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"sizely" is totally my new favorite word. Props.