Standard AA line?

[Triumph36]

Hey all, just wanted to throw my first post in here - it's been almost 7 months since I've made an NL post because of the old forum split.

6 max 200 NL UB

Hero (Button) $267.70.
Villain1 (BB) $258.60.
Villain2 (UTG) $263.85.


Hero: Ah Ac

Pre-flop: Villain 2 calls, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to $9. SB folds, Villain 1 calls, Villain 2 calls.


Flop (board: 7h Ts 3d): ($28)

Villain 1 bets $9. Villain 2 calls. Hero raises to $31. Villain 1 calls. Villain 2 calls.

Turn (board: 7h Ts 3d 4h): ($121)

Villain 1 checks. Villain 2 bets $121. Hero ?

Seems fairly standard, but I just want to check up on the 2+2 popular opinion. I'm sure I'll have more interesting posts in the future.

[Woolygimp]

I'd fold.

[tdomeski]

fold and thank him for flashing his cards

[Leptyne]

Leading into the preflop raiser is not a good sign. With two callers to your raise and another big lead I quietly fold with my dignity intact. You lost the minimum with AA.

[Triumph36]

Haha, that's what I figured. I'm always tempted to ask 'Which set?' after plays like this, but then I just sound bitter, as well as announcing that I folded an overpair.

It is interesting to think about from Villain 2's perspective how best to get the money in. I think that first fishy bet by Villain 1 really screwed him - if he raises there, I'm not three-betting, I'm going to call two cold and see if he slows down on the turn. If he raises after my raise, he's announced he has a set and I fold. Either way, he gets the same amount of money in as he did here.

If he checks the turn, I check through. I'd call a 2/3rds pot sized bet on the river, probably. He'd have to put me both on an overpair and being a decent player to take that line.

[einbert]

I think you need to either raise more on the flop, or just call. Personally I like jacking it up to about 55. The pot will be 55+18+28 so you will be giving about 2-1. Your flop raise is so tiny you are giving everything implied odds to draw against you, and you stand a very good chance of defining your hand in the eyes of the villians as weaker than it is, which could be trouble in later streets. Better just to call or make a real raise.

On the turn I think a read would be incredibly helpful. You have to consider the lack of strength you showed on the flop. Villian 2 could have a set or 56, but he could also have a hand like JJ-KK or even a strong T, thinking he is ahead because of your weak flop play. Seems pretty clear that you have to push or fold here, since a call here will obviously commit you to calling off the rest of villian's stack ($100 more). It's pretty close but I favor a push, since you vastly underrepresented your hand on the flop and this is a flop where villian could easily think his second best hand (AT, JJ, QQ) is best.

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you need to either raise more on the flop, or just call. Personally I like jacking it up to about 55. The pot will be 55+18+28 so you will be giving about 2-1. Your flop raise is so tiny you are giving everything implied odds to draw against you, and you stand a very good chance of defining your hand in the eyes of the villians as weaker than it is, which could be trouble in later streets. Better just to call or make a real raise.

On the turn I think a read would be incredibly helpful. You have to consider the lack of strength you showed on the flop. Villian 2 could have a set or 56, but he could also have a hand like JJ-KK or even a strong T, thinking he is ahead because of your weak flop play. Seems pretty clear that you have to push or fold here, since a call here will obviously commit you to calling off the rest of villian's stack ($100 more). It's pretty close but I favor a push, since you vastly underrepresented your hand on the flop and this is a flop where villian could easily think his second best hand (AT, JJ, QQ) is best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Implied odds? There's one hand in the deck that has more than 5 outs against me right now (89), and a few that have 5 - that hand is probably held by Villain 1, who has some kind of ten - king ten, queen ten, something like that. By raising to 31, I'm killing anyone's odds to draw except 89, which I don't see as a likely hand.

When I see a bet and a call on a rag board already, I'm not going to be sticking a lot of money in - that's why I underbet the pot. I'm not winning a huge pot here - aces win big pots against painted cards, not small flops like this with only one raise pre-flop. Therefore, my raise is for information. When both players call my raise, they're not calling it on overcards or draws. An overpair is even less likely for Villain 2 - who plays an overpair by calling pre-flop, calling a bet and a raise on the flop, and then trying to get money in on the turn by leading out for full pot?

The only hand Villain 2 could play this way that I am ahead of is XT suited in hearts, but that just seems so unlikely to fire out a full pot bet on what is essentially a draw. Am I really representing missed overcards with a small raise? I don't think so - the bigger the raise on a board like this, the weaker it looks. I represented an overpair and Villain 2 bet anyway. Time to fold.