I'm a Net Loser w/ AA [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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12-07-2005, 10:58 PM

Yes, I know my sample size is extremely small at only 19 tracked pocket Aces hands, and I have suffered some horrendous suck outs, but nonetheless, I want to see if I should be playing these differently. Here's a couple of hands.

Hand #1:

Villain is an extremely tight passive player. That AF is Not a Typo. I have a decent sample size on him. His stats are 12.3/2/0.2

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 5 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, CO raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Hand #2:

No reads on opponents on this one.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.20 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (18.20 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.20 BB

@bsolute_luck

12-07-2005, 11:15 PM

hand #1 i 3-bet the flop. that could be a 9, a FD, SD, or complete bluff or pocket pair worse than Aces. the turn he bet again because he probably hit his jack.

hand #2 i don't 3-bet that turn donkbet seeing as you've showed a lot of strength so far, so this isn't a bluff. looks like some hit their gutshot/OESD or 2p. i just call down.

12-08-2005, 12:10 AM

Hand 1: 3bet flop and lead turn. as you played it checkraise the turn.

hand 2: i like it. you likely have a lot of hidden outs when you are behind, and your definitely good 1 time in 19 heads up here

wyrd

12-08-2005, 12:36 AM

Hand #1: The above posters are saying 3-bet the flop, but you read villain as a passive/tight player. Given that he's raising with KK on the board, I think you safely assumed he probably had AK and properly folded. Another option is to call down. It happens, move on to the next hand.

Hand #2: I don't like the flop raise. What's the point? They're priced in, so what you're doing is value betting. Let's remember that while AA is a strong hand, it's only extremely strong against 1 or 2 players. It's a marginal PAIR (yes, it is still a PAIR) against multiple opponents. You need to look for ways to protect your pair in a multiway pot, not sweeten the pot odds for anyone on a draw. This just happens to be one of those unfortunate situations where you're in a bad position to the raiser, giving you no way to protect your hand in a large pot. All you can do is call down and hope for the best, or hope someone re-raises the turn so you can 3-bet, and protect your AA.

elindauer

12-08-2005, 03:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hand #1 i 3-bet the flop. that could be a 9, a FD, SD, or complete bluff or pocket pair worse than Aces. the turn he bet again because he probably hit his jack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think a person who raises this range of hands has a postflop aggression factor of 0.2?

He only raises 2% of his hands, so AK / KQ / KJs are all in his range. Further, he rarely so much as bets postflop. It's pretty unlikely that the villain has anything less than trip kings.

If you are going to fold though, fold the flop. You don't have anywhere near the right odds to peel. Either you believe him or you don't. Don't piss away a SB trying to make yourself feel less weak-tight. He's weak-tight, you are exploiting it.

-Eric

shant

12-08-2005, 04:05 AM

There's a forum for these posts now. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=beats)

12-08-2005, 07:58 AM

I don't get it. I posted micro limit hands for discussion. How doesn't that belong in this forum?

Sykes

12-08-2005, 08:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand #2: I don't like the flop raise. What's the point? They're priced in, so what you're doing is value betting. Let's remember that while AA is a strong hand, it's only extremely strong against 1 or 2 players. It's a marginal PAIR (yes, it is still a PAIR) against multiple opponents. You need to look for ways to protect your pair in a multiway pot, not sweeten the pot odds for anyone on a draw. This just happens to be one of those unfortunate situations where you're in a bad position to the raiser, giving you no way to protect your hand in a large pot. All you can do is call down and hope for the best, or hope someone re-raises the turn so you can 3-bet, and protect your AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're utterly retarded.

I would love AA in a 9 handed game capped by the other 8 players. I'd make a killing.

You're forgetting that this is limit, where you still need to value bet even if it gives the other person odds to draw at their hand. If you don't bet/raise, you just gave them infinite odds.

Although, Hand #2 I'd probably fold after the turn 3 bet or fold the river. There really isn't a single plausible hand you're beating.

@bsolute_luck

12-08-2005, 08:55 AM

bah! i completely missed that part /images/graemlins/confused.gif (and i usually harp on people for reads too)- still with 2 outs for Aces, a BDFD, i'd like to call and see what happens on the turn.

12-08-2005, 09:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it. I posted micro limit hands for discussion. How doesn't that belong in this forum?

[/ QUOTE ]

it definitely belongs here. your analysing a leak in your game at the micro level, nice post.

just an overall tip as well: there are relatively few times it is ever correct to lay down aces, although its often correct to slow down with them. dont ever feel you are playing 'well' or 'pro' because you are able to make a big laydown with a premium hand, because you are usually incorrect in doing so. (if the above statement doesnt apply to you, there is a very good chance its just variance so ignore it.... its just that this is often the attitude of newer players that fold as you did in the first hand)

12-08-2005, 10:55 AM

19 hands is too small a sample to worry about. With 33k hands I have less than 200 AA hands and it is holding up a little over 70% of the time. From around 5k hands on it was my biggest net hand. I think the worst run was 7 losses out of 9 times.

kiemo

12-08-2005, 11:18 AM

If you are very confident in your read in hand 1, then you made the right play. However I probably toss in 2 more BB to see the showdown as laying down Aces heads up is something I am not doing.

In hand 2 when UTG wakes up on the turn I call down. The crying call on the river is fine against only the raiser but I think its mostly to get some info about villian as I dont think you are ever winning this hand.

elindauer

12-08-2005, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
bah! i completely missed that part /images/graemlins/confused.gif (and i usually harp on people for reads too)- still with 2 outs for Aces, a BDFD, i'd like to call and see what happens on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you hoping your hand is good, or do you think you have the odds to draw?

I think your only hope here is that he checks behind KQ / KJs on the turn and you get two cards to your very thin draw. 0.2 AF is really low.

Then again, every time he does that, it likely results in your losing a full BB unimproved, which is a losing "draw" for you. It would just be so hard to check-fold aces after the turn goes check-check...

-Eric

ajm36

12-09-2005, 06:18 AM

God gave poker pocket Aces so that even losers could feel what it was like to win. In the place you are my friend, there is no God.