3 hands at 5/10 today

[poker1O1]

Hand 1: villian is 13/7/2.3
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Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold</font>, Hero raises</font>, 3 folds</font>, SB 3-bets</font>, 1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero caps</font>, SB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero folds.

River: (10 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB
Hand 2: villian unknown
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Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, 3 folds</font>, Hero raises</font>, 2 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero bets</font>, MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)</font>
MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.70 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)</font>
MP1 bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.70 BB
Hand 3: villian is 30/11/1.5
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Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
6 folds</font>,CO raises</font>, 2 folds</font>, Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)</font>
Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)</font>
Hero bets</font>, CO raises</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.20 BB
all comments appreciated

[Dariel86]

Couldn't he easily be raising you in the third hand with an Ace? You've shown weakness so he knows for sure you aren't sitting on a king. check call instead of bet fold IMO

[SlyGuy]

In hand 2 whats your thinking in calling the turn? If he has 78 2 pair he made a full house, i doubt 57 for a counterfeited 2 pair, 77 made a fullhouse, A7s and A8s make your ace outs dirty. I would fold the turn.

[W. Deranged]

Hand #2:

The turn card isn't great for you. He may be on a bare 6 but even when he is he's often on as many as 14 outs against you. When you're behind you sometimes are drawing dead and never to more than 6 outs. The pot is pretty small. I think folding is fine there without a read. With a read I think your line is fine but in general committing to a calldown (save for the straight card on the river) in a sub 6 bet pot with no pair takes some pretty telling evidence in my opinion.

Hand #3. I'm not sure I like your river bet. It might be hard if you get raised because you'll probably be good some of the time. The flush draw got there. You're still losing to a K. The only hands that you've now beat are basically small pocket pairs and 9s or unlikely 3s. In a smallish pot you might well not get called when the A hits anyway since it's so totally obvious you have an A in this pot.

So, all in all, I think an argument might be made for checking here. A worse A is going to bet a large percentage of the time so you're not losing value from those hands. You lose the same amount to a K or flush, and you don't open yourself up to folding the best hand. The only hands you lose value from are hands like Q9 and such, but, as said, often they aren't calling anyway given the board texture.

Hand #1

The flop call is odd to me. I think we are in raise/fold or fold territory here. Calling the flop and folding the turn seems like a waste of a flop call.

Hand #2 I can fold the turn here.

Hand 3. I go check/call on the river but If I bet, I would call that raise (only because i can't sleep at night if I didn't /images/graemlins/grin.gif).


LLL

[SlyGuy]

He has a gutshot and 2 outs to a full house. I think the flop call is ok. Once the second 9 comes he could be drawing dead.

[ErrantNight]

i'm not sure how the turn changes anything in hand 1

i think you can fold the turn in hand 2

i don't like the turn c/call in hand 3 in the slightest.

[damaniac]

Hand 1: SB continuing after your cap looks pretty bad. I peel here to fold a lot too, but I don't think he backs down and I don't know that my implied odds are good enough, but eh it's 15:1 you can make up 4 bets b/w the two of them so it looks fine.

Hand 2: Unknown eh? I think I may find a fold on this turn, less than 6:1. This board is pretty dangerous for a loose limper to have hit well. I guess he could just be bluffing a straight draw but I expect to see a draw/pair combo or something most of the time.

Hand 3: I'm confused by the check/call on the turn K. I'd expect him to raise a K often on the flop. I'd assume my hand is still best a lot of the time, pretty sure I'd call down a raise too.

[damaniac]

Also, how do we feel about capping the tightish SB 3-bettor in hand 1? We do have position and it is 3 way, but OTOH his range has to be pretty limited.

[SlyGuy]

I am with you on the cap. What's he 3 betting from there? JJ, QQ, KK, QQ AK, AKs? Seems a little aggro.

[damaniac]

Yeah we're a 2-1 dog against that range (which I think is pretty accurate). Unless it has some pretty sweet postflop benefits (and more likely it just bloats the pot and will help keep overcards around til the river), I'd just call.

Hand #1) I wouldn't have capped pre-flop, a call in that situation would have been sufficient. I don't think you needed to fold to just a bet either. Depending on my read, I might have raised him to see where I was at, but at a minimum I'm calling.
Hand #2) I know it's kind of tight, but I would have most-likely folded after MP1 raised post-flop. My limited experience has taught me that I lose much more cash chasing with big slick after I miss the flop than I make when I get lucky and suck out.
Hand #3). I would have had to pay the guy off inthis situation. It's probably a loser, but that's what I would do. Good luck.

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]


Hand 3: I'm confused by the check/call on the turn K. I'd expect him to raise a K often on the flop. I'd assume my hand is still best a lot of the time, pretty sure I'd call down a raise too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the turn check is generally quite good in Hand #3, actually.

1. The K is a good bluffing card. We'll get raised a lot here, and sometimes by worse hands. Checking assures we don't get bluffed out of the pot.

2. We may have outs against mid-pairs and such. These types of hands are rarely folding, but might check through the turn and let us have a free shot at the river.

3. Our hand is good a lot of the time, but very often the hands that we are beating are going to fold anyway, and often they are drawing slim. Checking allows worse As and such a chance to put in money they otherwise might not have.

4. The board isn't that scary with draws. I'm a little concerned about gutshot possibilities like JT and QJ, but I'm willing to take a slight risk against them in heads-up pots. If we check they might bet anyway so it doesn't really matter in a lot of cases.

So I don't see much reason to follow through with a bet on the turn automatically here. Nate the Great advocates a good line with these hands: check-call the turn and check-fold the river. The idea is that when we check the turn villain will bet tons of hands trying to take down the pot, but will rarely bet the river unless its actually for value. Our turn call says we're likely not going anywhere and so we can be confident folding when villain bets a second time.

[damaniac]

[ QUOTE ]

So I don't see much reason to follow through with a bet on the turn automatically here. Nate the Great advocates a good line with these hands: check-call the turn and check-fold the river. The idea is that when we check the turn villain will bet tons of hands trying to take down the pot, but will rarely bet the river unless its actually for value. Our turn call says we're likely not going anywhere and so we can be confident folding when villain bets a second time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Consarnit! I just read that post too! I should probably consider applying what I learn here at the table.

[ErrantNight]

nice post

[damaniac]

Also, to clarify a bit (or you can link the original post), what type of situations/boards was Nate's plan for? Obviously when we have air in a HU situation...Seems like we want Ax since our hand is good a lot of the time...what else?

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, to clarify a bit (or you can link the original post), what type of situations/boards was Nate's plan for? Obviously when we have air in a HU situation...Seems like we want Ax since our hand is good a lot of the time...what else?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's specifically for times we have a big A OOP in a heads-up pot. Basically the idea is we have outs to improve but will also have the best hand a lot of the time. So we see the river and hope to showdown a winner unimproved a good portion of the time, but don't put in any money on the river.

[damaniac]

Cool. And if we're up against say a 50/30/3 type of nutcase...or someone real aggressive, is c/c'ing the river ok? Do we abandon that line for something else?

[W. Deranged]

[ QUOTE ]
Cool. And if we're up against say a 50/30/3 type of nutcase...or someone real aggressive, is c/c'ing the river ok? Do we abandon that line for something else?

[/ QUOTE ]

If we think villain would often bet both streets with a worse hand, check-calling both and getting to showdown is fine.

[poker1O1]

there wasn't really any hard and true reasoning to capping hand 1, but in my experience, if the person that "didn't" cap it preflop bets the flop, he has a very premium hand.
as for hand 2, i should have folded the turn, but folded the river after the straight draw was completed.
and hand 3, i checked the turn cuz i liked it, if i was ahead, i still was, if not, i wasn't, and i felt that i was. so i donked the river because it seemed pretty obvious i had an ace and didn't want a lower pair checking thru.