interesting 20-40 hand

[worm33]

Heres a hand I just played that I thought was interesting.

20-40 online. I just sat down on my labtop and I dont have my PT going. UTG is a huge fish. UTG+3 I do not know but seems loose and has raised 4 or 5 pots my first orbit. CO Poster is tight aggro.

UTG limps. UTG+3 raises. I call with AcJc. Poster 3 bets. All Call.

Flop: Q104 with 1 club. Checked to me and I check and 3 bettor checks.

Turn: 6 of clubs, giving me a flush draw. UTG bets, he could have any draw or anything really. UTG+3 calls. I raise. 3 bettor folds. Both call.

River: 4 of hearts for a final board of q10464. Checked to me and I check.

[jaxUp]

hmmm, I can understand wanting to fold a possible AK, or AJ of CO. However, it forces us to put in 2 bets when likely behind and only get 1 bet per caller on the river when we hit. If we just call the turn, we can put in only 1 bet when likely behind and get 2 bets per caller when we hit. Maybe I'm missing something (likely). Of course this assumes that turn bettor also leads the river.

[gonores]

Your reads indicate that you played postflop very well. I'm just wondering why preflop isn't a 3-bet by you? Putting the poster in the muck is pretty important, no?

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
Your reads indicate that you played postflop very well. I'm just wondering why preflop isn't a 3-bet by you? Putting the poster in the muck is pretty important, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey gonores, would you mind understanding the logic behind the turn raise? I'm not really sure why/if it's correct. Also, I think I would 3bet preflop as well.

[mikeyKay]

id prolly make it 3bets pre flop, due to the nature of the raiser.

i dont think i raise the turn...kills your action if you hit, you have very little folding equity, and you dont have a big enough share of the pot to raise for value. just call the turn and you can pop em for another if you hit.

since you raised the turn, i think you have to bet the river...the pot is offering you 1:12 on a bluff and im estimating you can pull it down that often.

-mike

[PokerBob]

i really don't like the turn raise at all, unless you intend to follow through on the river. I am assuming that you bet the river if you get 1 fold on the turn?

[gonores]

UTG bets out. Worm says this can be "anything." "Anything" includes a lot of hands AJ beats.

Guy in the middle calls. That means he can't beat many hands that fall under "anything."

Guy behind worm 3bet preflop (and he is a decent player). That usually means a hand that beats worm. After checking the flop, One can venture a guess he is either huge or holding AK or 99...something like that. It sure would be super to make either of those hands muck before showdown. That can best be accomplished by raising. Even if the 3-bettor is huge, it's not a disaster, cuz worm has probably 10 outs or so to the nuts (I'm not counting the board-pairing club outs, because if the turn bettor 3bets here, those board pairs usually = boat).

So there you have it. You get a free showdown, probably knock out a better hand, and give yourself a bunch of extra bets when you do hit on the river. Sounds like a standard raise in my book.

PS - you need get out to vegas one of these days, ey worm?

[bicyclekick]

I don't overly like the turn raise. i don't hate it but I don't like it either.

[CardSharpCook]

I don't really like it. We just picked up 9 more outs giving us 12 nut outs AND a bettor and a caller ahead of us. I'd really love for them to be betting into me on the river too. The PF 3-bettor behind isn't much of a concern. Fine, he may have our A/J out covered, but compared to the positive situation of having a bettor and a caller leading into us on a nut river, I just call. The raise here is pretty EV neutral, while the call is +EV for the action it creates on the river.

[worm33]

The main thing I am focused on here is winning the pot. If I make the nuts fine, I win the pot. But I know the pre-flop 3 bettor has me beat and prolly has my ace dead. By raising I for surely get him to fold and at least 60% of the time clean up my 2 ace outs, of course this is assuming the turn bettor doesnt have a monster.

I think what everybody is discounting is what are the chances AJ high is the best hand if you can get the PF 3 bettor to fold. I think given the descriptions of the players I want to show this hand down, and give somebody a chance to fold a small pair or another AJ.

PS Also if he has AK I clear up jack outs if one of them has a smaller pair. Edited to add this.