KK blind defense...new line

[pokerjoker]

I've been playing kinda LAG...the easy way to tell this is that I am down money /images/graemlins/frown.gif......

Villians pf aggression was quite low. So I was about to reraise to $20. I thought for a sec and couldn't think of many hands he would call $20 with that he definately wouldn't call allin with, so.......

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG ($201.65)
UTG+1 ($246.90)
MP1 ($210.20)
MP2 ($193.30)
MP3 ($184.83)
CO ($248.57)
Button ($333.60)
SB ($264.35)
Hero ($157.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $155.45 (All-In)

[MINETZ]

he prolly wouldnt call with anything except KK-AA, maybe QQ. You lose all your value because he will take a flop with hands you have skulled. ALso why do u not have 200 on the table?

[SmileyEH]

Reraising to $20 is a really bad play. Raise to $30 to kill set odds. There's nothing I love more than raising ducks on the button and getting priced in for an inevitable stacking every 8 flops.

-SmileyEH

[swarm]

Is this how you have been playing? Going all in?

Just make a raise, you said you have a LAG image, I think you would be surprised what he would call with. Hardly anyone is calling an all in.

[-Skeme-]

[ QUOTE ]
Reraising to $20 is a really bad play. Raise to $30 to kill set odds. There's nothing I love more than raising ducks on the button and getting priced in for an inevitable stacking every 8 flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising to $30: 1.8:1 odds.
Raising to $20: 2.5:1 odds.

Hitting a set: 7.5:1 odds.

How are we pricing him out? Does your example deal with effective odds?

[tdomeski]

raise to $28 or just call pre flop. yeah i said just call. pushing is stupid if you like money, might as well just fold.

[swarm]

Got to raise this more preflop, make it at least 30 with 3 limpers.

A 3bet is going to pot commit you, You have to bet at least 150. That would put over 50% of your stack in the middle.

OOP this is going to get ugly. All 3betting does is gets you committed versus a set and folds out hands you beat unless you put him on a draw. I don't see a flush draw doing this too often however.

Given the fact he min-raised with a player waiting to act after him i'm probably folding. If you had raised more preflop however and gotten HU, i'm calling and check raising all in on the turn.

[Leptyne]

Might as well fold.

[pokerjoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Got to raise this more preflop, make it at least 30 with 3 limpers.

A 3bet is going to pot commit you, You have to bet at least 150. That would put over 50% of your stack in the middle.

OOP this is going to get ugly. All 3betting does is gets you committed versus a set and folds out hands you beat unless you put him on a draw. I don't see a flush draw doing this too often however.

Given the fact he min-raised with a player waiting to act after him i'm probably folding. If you had raised more preflop however and gotten HU, i'm calling and check raising all in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[pokerjoker]

thx for the advice, in the next few hands almost the exact same thing happened. I had KK again...I pushed again and same guy called, I get excited. Hand finished and we split the pot KK vs KK.

Raising to 30 sounds good.
That gives him bad odds if he has low pp.

I guess I was hoping to get a call here from
JJ/QQ/AK

or maybe maybe some total donkey hand.

but I think y'all are right.

[emil3000]

Seems like this was supposed to go in Aggies thread. Hehe.

[einbert]

Call and check the flop against the vast majority of opponents.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reraising to $20 is a really bad play. Raise to $30 to kill set odds. There's nothing I love more than raising ducks on the button and getting priced in for an inevitable stacking every 8 flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising to $30: 1.8:1 odds.
Raising to $20: 2.5:1 odds.

Hitting a set: 7.5:1 odds.

How are we pricing him out? Does your example deal with effective odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it has to do with cutting down his implied odds. If hero makes it $30, villain has to put in $22 to call. Then if villain flops a set, the best he can do win the $9 in the pot + hero's $157 stack = $166. Putting in $22 to win $166 on a 7.5:1 shot is just about 0 EV. If hero doesn't get stacked every time or if villain puts more money in postflop with an unimproved pair, that's a clear -EV call. If hero only raises to $20, villain gets 166:12 implied odds, which puts hero in a tough spot postflop if villain starts showing agression on a ragged board. Does he have QQ or JJ or did he hit a set? If you fold the best hand, you lose a ton of value, but if you'll call off your whole stack with an overpair, you've given him good odds to hit a set with that preflop raise. If you make it $30 preflop, he can't call profitably even if he knows you'll just auto-push any flop.

[swarm]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Got to raise this more preflop, make it at least 30 with 3 limpers.

A 3bet is going to pot commit you, You have to bet at least 150. That would put over 50% of your stack in the middle.

OOP this is going to get ugly. All 3betting does is gets you committed versus a set and folds out hands you beat unless you put him on a draw. I don't see a flush draw doing this too often however.

Given the fact he min-raised with a player waiting to act after him i'm probably folding. If you had raised more preflop however and gotten HU, i'm calling and check raising all in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops, posted this in the wrong thread.

[-Skeme-]

That's kind of what I was figuring. So he'll stand to lose $22 7/8 times if he autofolds flop without set to Hero's jam, but he'll win Hero's stack 1/8 times when he gets the set? What about redraws, an Ace high flop, etc? Do we just not figure these because there are too many variables that nothing is certain?

[Hattifnatt]

Make a normal reraise to $22 or so.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
Make a normal reraise to $22 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]
Raise to $25 -30.