I don't get it....

[b33nz]

Hmm... I just recieved $50 each in two party accounts (I dont play there anymore) and I cant withdraw the money without playing 500 raked hands for each $50. So I decided to play PL $25 Omaha Hi. Well anyway, I don't really get where the skill comes in in Omaha. I mean even at the PL $25s, people play loose-passive preflop, which is ok, but then tight-agressive after the flop. And any time there is almost ANY pot sized bet at all, you can be sure over 85% the bettor has the nuts or a big draw. And if there is a raise, then you can be over 98% sure that the raiser has the nuts (or a full house if the flop is paired).
Well anyway, my question is, where does the skill come in? I mean you just wait for good/drawing hands and then once you hit the nuts (or a good hand with redraws) on the flop, you bet out. When do you ever bluff in Omaha? When do you slowplay? In my opinion, both of those questions can be answered in two words: almost never. I know it's possible to make a living off Omaha, and I heard the PL $25's are a gold mine... but the game itself.. is it this stale and predictable or am I missing something here?
Another thing, people say 'dont play with danglers' well thats kinda hard when over 95% of the hands are not perfect without any danglers. I mean I played for more than an hour two tabling and I think the best drawing hand I got (that was capable of winning) was 5522.
Thanks...

[Spellmen]

If a bet means the nuts 85% of the time at a $25 table then you are not exercising good table selection

Wow, all this after ~150 hands.

5-5-2-2 isn't a drawing hand, its a piece of crap hand.

Before worrying about when to bluff or slowplay, you might want to focus on hand selection and patience. In those super loose small stakes games where a high percentage of pots see a showdown, you are going to need have the nuts (or pretty close to it) on the river.

[psyduck]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, all this after ~150 hands.

5-5-2-2 isn't a drawing hand, its a piece of crap hand.

Before worrying about when to bluff or slowplay, you might want to focus on hand selection and patience. In those super loose small stakes games where a high percentage of pots see a showdown, you are going to need have the nuts (or pretty close to it) on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

But you can make two sets with it, and if the 52 are suited, you can make a wheel straight flush.

rite?

[Unabridged]

what? is it try PLO for the First Time Day?

[b33nz]

Well I've tried it before, but never where I realized the play of the game... Anyway, thanks to chimichonga for the only one trying to help me... I'll try to be more patient next time I play.

BTW, I don't mean to flame Omaha in any way... I was just looking for some insight.. any beginners tips would be appreciated, too.

In terms of trying not to inflame the people on this part saying "I dont see any skill in Omaha" is usually not taken nicely.
However, in lower-limits nut-peddling is a common thing. I think that this is a fine winning strategy for lower limits (especially limit Oh). I think that if people are nut-peddling this much overall at the table then u should be more aggressive and start stealing on later streets or raising to get hands down to heads up or something like that. Push people around or tighten up and nut-peddle with everyone else.
Also, you can limp in with hands like QQxx, KKxx for set value and so forth. Also, umm ... why are you playing 5522? Unless ur in the bb for no extra charge.

[b33nz]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, umm ... why are you playing 5522? Unless ur in the bb for no extra charge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, cause I'm a nub at omaha... I also realized that raising preflop actually helps alot in terms of winning the hand without the nuts because most people will fold their hands on the flop for a pot sized bet if u raised preflop. I was limping in with hands such as AKJ9, which I think I should be raising with...

[ QUOTE ]
Um, cause I'm a nub at omaha... I also realized that raising preflop actually helps alot in terms of winning the hand without the nuts because most people will fold their hands on the flop for a pot sized bet if u raised preflop. I was limping in with hands such as AKJ9, which I think I should be raising with...

[/ QUOTE ]
This info may be useful to you:

A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif wins 19.5% against 8 opponents (all see river)
A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif wins 16.5% against 8 opponents (all see river)
A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif wins 13.9% against 8 opponents (all see river)
A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gif wins 13.0% against 8 opponents (all see river)
A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif wins 11.0% against 8 opponents (all see river)

Suitedness counts a lot more preflop in Omaha than in Hold 'Em.

[BluffTHIS!]

Silent Acorns did not scream
Tho' the hand played out like some bad dream
Getting allin with top set he was happy about
Until came the river and the gutshot that TheRempel did suckout.

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
When do you ever bluff in Omaha? When do you slowplay? In my opinion, both of those questions can be answered in two words: almost never.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to be kidding if you think no one's ever bluffing in PL Omaha.

Someone make's a big pre-flop raise with 89TJ, takes the flop h/u and then pots it on A72 because he represented the A.

Or the guy on the button who has AK78 and pots it on a T 6 2 flop because everyone limped pre-flop and now it's been checked around to him.

There's plenty of that going on, especially by deep stacks against smaller ones. If you don't ever make those plays, or think no one else does, no wonder you think there's no skill in the game.

That being said, you're right about the nut peddlers. But they're a hell of a lot easier to play against than the wild ones.

[liquid]

Metric feet tripping
Rhythm stutter-skipping
BluffTHIS! slipping?

[ QUOTE ]
Metric feet tripping
Rhythm stutter-skipping
BluffTHIS! slipping?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, who is going to start the poetry war post?

[beset7]

[ QUOTE ]
Silent Acorns did not scream
Tho' the hand played out like some bad dream
Getting allin with top set he was happy about
Until came the river and the gutshot that TheRempel did suckout.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I think you are losing it a little bluff.

[ QUOTE ]
Metric feet tripping
Rhythm stutter-skipping
BluffTHIS! slipping?

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe this would be better:

Tho' Silent Acorns did not scream,
The hand played out like some bad dream.
Top set! Allin! he's glad about
'til Rempel rivers bad suckout.

[BluffTHIS!]

LOL. Now you're in the groove.

[lilkunta2]

what the hell is wrong with 5-5-2-2
ive played lots of omaha and ill see the flop with this hand form any posiiton for the bring in, and theres a good chance id call a raise cold with it PF, and id DEFINATLEY call a PF rasie with it if i thought the guy had aces when he raised.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
what? is it try PLO for the First Time Day?

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, it was for me as well yesterday. I kinda like it though, in spite of getting stacked by quads once already.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
what the hell is wrong with 5-5-2-2
ive played lots of omaha and ill see the flop with this hand form any posiiton for the bring in, and theres a good chance id call a raise cold with it PF, and id DEFINATLEY call a PF rasie with it if i thought the guy had aces when he raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the lower limits as I have frequently said, you can make more errors of any kind including hand selection, simply because the level of play overall is so bad. Thus you can be making lots of mistakes but less than the other players and still come out ahead. The only reason bottom set can be profitable at lower limits is because other players with go broke with any 2 pair or chasing 8 out draws to the river headsup.

But at the higher limits, bottom set will get you busted long term, because most of the action you will get, will be action you don't want. And players with AA sometimes have 88 to go with it when that seemingly sweet flop of 832 comes along for you, and you think they are just dumping their stack with unimproved aces.

alas! i cry, to my chagrin
5522 i did take in
boredom won, my poor stack lost
as all my hard earned chips i tossed
to my surprise a set i made
as was right i made him pay
to see the draw for which he called
a blank, again my chips did fall
to no avail, he took the dare
but now i smile for comes a pair
my last good chips flew boldly out
matched by his without a doubt
for mine was not the only set
i stupidly ignored that threat
and walked straight on into the net
for one bare out 2 times i bet

[joewatch]

I never knew there were so many poet-poker players.

the sad thing is my poetry is actually better than my game.