Big slick quandary

[rtrombone]

20-40 Commerce. Different table from my black kings post. Not as good a game, which is why I kept requesting moves to the super-loose fishy guy's table. Maybe I shouldn't have, since he eventually got all my money.

Two callers, I complete with A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif in the small blind. I generally don't raise out of the blinds (maybe I should, but that's a subject for another post). Now the big blind raises. Big blind is a pretty good player who plays 60-120 and 80-160. Aggressive but reasonable; I got him to lay down a hand earlier with king-high. All call.

Flop is K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . I bet, he hesitates for a second, then calls. Others fold. Turn is a brick, a black 6 or something. I bet again. Now he raises.

Is this a clear fold?

[Ed S.]

No I don't think it is a clear fold yet but there are plenty of scare cards to make you think otherwise. I guess you have to just have to call the turn and check call the river. Or possibly could be re-raising the turn be the right play? But if your absolutely positive you are beaten then you can lay it down. But you have to be absolutely sure.


Ed S.

[34TheTruth34]

I shudder to think about how much money you are costing yourself at the end of every year playing 20-40 and not raising in the blinds with your big hands...

[Mikey]

Mistake #1. you should have raised with this hand when it was your turn to act. It's very powerful and I think rates to be the best hand since no one raised coming in.

Mistake #2. given that you made mistake number one, once the BB makes the raise and it comes back to you, you could have cleared up MISTAKE #1 by reraising.

On the flop it's K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/heart.gif 9 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

You did well by betting it out and the good player calls after a slight hesitation.

On the turn a brick falls, you bet and he raises.

I think the best way to play this would be to call the turn and then check call the river if a heart doesn't come.


A. You are not folding.
B. He could be semibluff raising hoping you'll lay down.
C. He could have you beat or tied and freerolling with the Ace of /forums/images/icons/heart.gif

I think laying down on the turn is a big mistake.

[rtrombone]

I was almost certain I was beat. It's partly because the small blind wasn't the type to put plays on people. He's aggressive but straightforward in that sense.

I called, though. The river was the 2 /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . I checked, he checked and took it down with a set of 9s.

This is the second time in the last few weeks where I've been almost positive my opponent made his flush on the river, but it turns out he was raising with a flopped set and not the ace of the flush suit. I think it was ML4L who said that he would have maybe bet the river in the other hand. I thought he was crazy, but I'm going to do it next time (of course, that's when the ace-high flush is going to raise my ass).

It was my only chance. I've seen people lay down sets in this situation before, and this is the type of player who would have, as well.

I think you guys are right about raising out of the blinds. With certain holdings it has to be +EV. I'll have to start doing this.

[Diplomat]

I think you have to start raising out of the blinds. And not just your big hands -- some hands that might seem borderline. I think Abdul recommends occationally raising with hands like ATs in some situations from the blinds.

Also you should consider raising out of the blinds with hands like 66 and Axs if many people have limped in (and you are getting good odds to flop a set or a flushdraw).

I think what you should be looking to gain value and deception. If you never raise out of the blinds you are leaving an awful lot of money on the table every year.

-Diplomat