Two 4-8 Hands - How did I do?

[JoeU]

These are two hands I played today at Foxwoods. I've been having trouble with my post flop play lately, and these two hands are great examples in my opinion as to what has possibly gone wrong. If you could, I'd like everyone to critique my play as well as offer advice as to how I can fix this, if there is anything wrong at all. The players at this table are better than your average bunch of 4-8'ers, but there are some exceptions.

Hand #1
I am in early position with T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/heart.gif . UTG calls, he is textbook loose/passive and calls with almost any 2 cards. I raise, all fold to the BB who calls. He is somewhat of a tight unknown. Haven't seen him play too many hands, and not too aggressive either. UTG calls. 3 to the flop for 2 SB each.

Flop: A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/club.gif

Bottom set looks nice to me. All check, I bet, both call. 3 to the turn for 4.5BB

Turn: A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif (A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/club.gif )

Not too shabby I'm pretty sure I'm in the lead. Check-check I bet, BB raises /forums/images/icons/confused.gif , UTG folds, and I say out loud as I call; "I think I'm whimping out on this one". 2 to the river for 8.5BB.

River: 3 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif (A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif T /forums/images/icons/club.gif A /forums/images/icons/spade.gif )

He bets, I call. He shows QJo for the flopped straight and I take down a medium sized pot.

My thinking on the turn was that I might be behind to a slowplayed AA, AK, KK. Why I decided this at that point, I'll never know, but it obviously cost me alot of money.

Hand #2

I am UTG+1 with K /forums/images/icons/spade.gif K /forums/images/icons/club.gif . UTG folds, I raise, 2 callers behind me and the BB (UTG from hand #1) calls. 4 players to the flop for 8.5SB.

Flop: 6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif .

Looks like rag-rag-rag to me. BB checks, I bet, one caller and BB call. 3 to the turn for 5.5BB

Turn: T /forums/images/icons/club.gif (6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif )

BB checks, I bet, LP folds, BB raises /forums/images/icons/confused.gif I call, suspecting he slowplayed a 5, picked up a club draw, or something along those lines. 2 to the river for 9.5BB

River: A /forums/images/icons/club.gif (T /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/club.gif )

That was the WORST card I could have seen. BB bets, and I reluctantly fold. He later mentions that he had a T /forums/images/icons/mad.gif .

Give it to me straight folks. And JTG, I wrote everything down before I typed for accuracy. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

Joe

[Dynasty]

You've got the problem I mentioned in guppy's "Hand from a Weak-Tight player" post. You are not truly reading hands. You were only putting your opponents on hands which either (1) have you beaten or (2) are drawing extremely live against you.

At no point in either hand did you consider the possibilty that you had your opponents competely crushed- even drawing dead. You only looked at it from a worst-case scenario

In hand one, you've got an easy 3-bet on the turn. In the second hand, I would probably only call on the turn but would always call on the river afterwards.

[Ed Miller]

UTG folds, and I say out loud as I call; "I think I'm whimping out on this one".

I think you have a tell. As you (hopefully) know, you were seeing monsters under the bed... you should have raised.

In hand 2, you unquestionably should have called on the river.

[JoeU]

Thanks Dynasty and Major for the responses. I think you are both right. My comment was really one of disgust more than anything else. I convinced myself I was behind and was pissed that a card that could help me could also hurt me. In hind sight, I did have my opponents crushed and Like I said, "I whimped out".

Thanks again for the responses.

Joe

[JTG51]

LIke I told you earlier, the call on the turn in hand 1 was very bad. Your opponent will have a slowplayed QJ or just an A way more often than he'll have AA, KK, or AK.

Your comment about playing like a wimp was pretty bad too. If he did have an A with a weak kicker that may scare him from betting the river.

I think you have a pretty easy call down in the second hand. Once you call the turn though, you HAVE to call the river. A club flush is very unlikely. First, he would have to have Xc6c or have called the flop bet with just a runner, runner flush draw. Second, even if he did get to the turn with a flush draw, you won't see a player in that game check raise semibluff the turn with a draw very often. That's a pretty ballsy move. The A shouldn't scare you either. It looks like he's got his hand on the turn, there's no reason to assume it includes an A just because one hit the river.

[Indian Ocean]

Hi JoeU.

I was at the same table today too. I was the one with cowboy hat on.
You def should of raised with your boat on the first hand.
The reason you wimped out was because you were check raised.very strong move.. next time you won't

In the second hand if that guy(Josh, this guy never met a hand, he didn't like) said he had a ten than he had a ten. I played with him for few hours and he came out betting on the river sometime with middle pair. I folded my QQ to a xAxT board when he came out betting on the turn and i folded my QQ. Turns out he had the ten. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

[34TheTruth34]

In hand two, there are some opponents that I would fold to a check-raise from on the turn every time. There are some of course that are full of it and I would always call down too. You're in a tough spot here. I would consider three-betting and then folding to a four-bet or just checking behind on the river.

Needless to say, the river card is horrible for your hand. Heads up with an unknown opponent, I'd probably lean towards calling here. The thing is, it gets frustrating making crying call after crying call to be shown a five, ace, or flush that you "knew" your opponent had. I have to admit I make too many of these calls on the river and get shown a better hand.

I guess my point is that this is a close call, but usually a good laydown because most opponents you'd play against in that game will have you beat here.

Congratulations on the new arrival!