Having trouble with my middle pairs

I'm running really bad on Party 3/6. Starting to think everyone is trying to push me off of my hand. This has started to make me question my play with my pocket pairs.

Hand 1:
Party 3/6 10 handed

Preflop
Hero opens in MP with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif in MP. LP TAG cold calls.

Flop
6/images/graemlins/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero bets, TAG raises, Hero calls.

Turn
J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero donks... intending to fold to a raise.

Hand 2:
Party 3/6 10 handed

Preflop:
MP TAG raises, Hero 3-bets from BB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP calls.

Flop:
10/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero calls intending to donk a blank turn card.

Maybe I should be just folding these small pots. Thanks for the input.

[QTip]

In the first hand, this really depends on the player and what types of hands/draws he'll raise that flop. He probably feels you have overs there and the flop missed you. With aggressive players that will raise to put pressure on me with some pair or a draw, I 3 bet and go from there.

In hand 2, making it three with 88 from the BB....meh, I don't like it. Especially against a player that understands position and knows how to use it. There's normally a pretty big difference in ranges between MP1 and MP3 here as well. The smaller the range and the more aggressive the player is postflop, the more I'm inclined to just see the flop for 1 more.

[winky51]

Hand 1: You have to think what a TAG would be calling here with and how you can lose the least. My best guess would be KQs, KQo, AJs and they are clubs. 99+ he's reraising I think. He's not calling with 22-66 or a suited connector. I would say 3 bet and bet the turn. If he raises well then your probably done, but I don't see that happening.

Hand 2: Don't reraise your out of position here. At best call see the flop and then either bet or check raise depending on the player and how he reacts.

[W. Deranged]

Hand #1 is fine. I use that line a lot actually. Against a straightforward opponent we can use the turn donk as an "effective showdown," as a lot of times we're beat we'll get raised on the turn and can give the hand up right there. We don't give free cards and so on. Three-betting and leading is good to though it can also be nice to see a safe turn card and we may not want to get too out of hand on the flop with a marginal hand if we're not even sure we want to get to showdown.

Hand #2 I don't like. Pre-flop I'm actually okay with; I also do this, but it requires the right opponent. I want to think he's going to either: a) be open-raising a wide range here; or b) be playing the flop tight-weakly and folding some better hands (like 99 on an AQx board) and playing his worse hands in an un-confusing way.

As for the flop play, I think once you get raised you can usually be done with the hand. Even those hands that you are ahead of that might raise this flop (big /images/graemlins/heart.gif draws, KQ, A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/club.gif and so on) have like 12 or more outs against you. I'd recommend calling the flop to try to hit a set and because some portion of the time villain will check behind on the turn anyway and might let you get to the river to see your hand hold up. But if you check the turn and he bets, it's folding time.

[Nick C]

In Hand 1, I suspect you're in trouble. One problem is that pocket pairs are popular cold-calling hands, and you're kind of in a mine field on this flop where you could be losing to 99 or a set. (Villain might not pop you immediately with a set, though.)

A flush draw is of course also possible, but it's only the action that really has me thinking along those lines. There just aren't all that many cold-calling suited broadways in the range of most tight players. Anyway, though, you're an underdog to K /images/graemlins/club.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif on the flop, so I'm not sure I'm actually hoping to be up against a flush draw.

Sometimes players will make up for the lack of a preflop 3-bet (with, say, AK) by auto-raising the flop, so that's something else to consider.

Anyway, your line seems all right to me. It also kind of feels like a bet-fold turn line, and this worries me. However, it may seem like a bet-fold line more because I post here than because of anything I've observed at the tables. I don't recall getting semibluff raised a lot at 3/6 when I pulled a stop-n-go. In fact, what I remember is that players tended to respect the stop-n-go.

Hand 2: One problem you have here on the flop is that Villain can find an excuse to raise with almost anything in his range, on that flop. The only thing really slowing him down is your preflop 3-bet.

It's a really uncomfortable situation. I don't like any line I can think of here, really.

I guess the turn donk is okay, so long as you think Villain will react predictably enough. But wouldn't you have 3-bet the flop with AQ or better? I'm not recommending that you do so with 88, but I think the turn stop-n-go represents the marginal hand you in fact have here.

I think I'd check. If Villain takes a free card, at least you'll have a good idea where you stand on the river. (You don't want to see an ace, king, or queen.) Anyway, he might fire again with AK/AQ/KQ, which does make up a big 48-combo portion of his range, so I wouldn't fold. You'd prefer not to give these hands a free card, so there is a case to be made for your turn bet. It's possible it's less transparent than it seems to me. (I'm just worried Villain will find a second semibluff-raise.)

[ QUOTE ]
As for the flop play, I think once you get raised you can usually be done with the hand. Even those hands that you are ahead of that might raise this flop (big /images/graemlins/heart.gif draws, KQ, A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/club.gif and so on) have like 12 or more outs against you. I'd recommend calling the flop to try to hit a set and because some portion of the time villain will check behind on the turn anyway and might let you get to the river to see your hand hold up. But if you check the turn and he bets, it's folding time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting line. When I first read it, I thought it was a bad move. Then it seemed not so bad. Obviously it wouldn't work very often, but with 9sb in the pot it doesn't have to. Still, I wouldn't be comfortable making this play without a read.

My line is a little different. I'd check to him on the flop. If he bets I raise and fold to a 3bet, if he calls the raise I lead the turn and don't put in any other money UI. A lot of players will fear a big hand and try to get to the river as cheap as possible with TP and possibly fold middle pair. I also lead the turn if he checks behind and the turn isn't an A,K, or Q.