Couple marginal hands $5+.5 Stars [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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SomethingClever

12-06-2005, 11:52 PM

I come from the 6-max limit world, where the mantra is fastplaying and aggression. I've been messing around with 5+.5 1TTs on Stars and had fun with some weirdplay. What do you think of these hands?

Hand 1

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Button (t1500)
SB (t1500)
BB (t1500)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
MP2 (t1500)
MP3 (t1500)
CO (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero calls t20, 2 folds, CO calls t20, Button calls t20, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t100) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t100) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets t20, BB calls t20, Hero calls t20, CO folds, Button calls t20.

River: (t180) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB bets t100, BB folds, Hero raises to t300, Button folds, SB raises to t500, Hero raises to t1460, SB calls t960 (All-In).

Final Pot: t3100

Hand 2

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

SB (t2440)
Hero (t2755)
UTG (t2520)
MP (t1280)
CO (t3135)
Button (t1370)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
3 folds, Button raises to t400, 1 fold, Hero raises to t2755...

Hand 3

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t3120)
MP (t725)
Button (t2392)
SB (t2730)
Hero (t4533)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t150, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t450) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks.

Turn: (t450) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets t150, Hero raises to t500, UTG folds, SB calls t350.

River: (t1450) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t1000...

Hand 4

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

SB (t3195)
BB (t575)
UTG (t2392)
MP (t1080)
Hero (t6258)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to t1080, Hero raises to t6258... [remember BB is yet to act]

Shilly

12-06-2005, 11:58 PM

Hand 1: I raise the turn. But the river looks fine, I'm never folding my hand here.

Hand 2: Somewhat read dependent, against a tight raiser I'd just fold. He'd have to be really (maniacally) loose for me to stick in half my stack in this spot.

Hand 3: I'd bet about 600 here, so he can still call with an 8 without being totally crippled.

Hand 4: Looks fine.

mpfree

12-07-2005, 12:01 AM

I'm still learning playing tourneys to take this for what it's worth (not much /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Hand 1: I think I bet the flop with an Ace on the board and hope it hit someone. nh.

Hand 2: Do you have a read on the button and suspect a steal? I'm not sure I want to lose half my stack on a coin flip at best

Hand 3: Check behind on the river?

Hand 4: Looks fine

lastchance

12-07-2005, 12:02 AM

1: I'd bet flop, just because you probably get paid with AJ here on board. Slowplaying is a lot better on a T62 board or something like that, rainbow.

2: Read-dependent, looking for the fold equity or a really loose raiser.

3: Hm... Checking on this dry board may be good, but I think you get paid way too much just by betting your hands. .

4. This is easy.

wuwei

12-07-2005, 12:30 AM

1. Flop and turn are really bad. You need to bet and raise and stuff.

2. Depends on the button, but I fold most of the time.

3. If you aren't betting the flop (which I do more often than not), I like your line.

4. Standard.

SomethingClever

12-07-2005, 01:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You need to bet and raise and stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? The pot's 100 chips, nobody raised preflop. Do you think I'm going to get any action?

Isn't this a good time to slowplay?

billy51

12-07-2005, 02:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You need to bet and raise and stuff.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why? The pot's 100 chips, nobody raised preflop. Do you think I'm going to get any action?

Isn't this a good time to slowplay?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think slowplaying is fine, but just to elaborate a little on the argument for betting and raising: Players at 5+.50 call way too much. This is frustrating at times because you can't bluff them, but you more than make up for it by betting and raising your good hands, because they'll call you. Making a small bet on the flop to build the pot is probably worth considering. If no one is willing to call even a small bet on the flop, you are probably not going to get much action, regardless of what comes on the turn.

Shilly

12-07-2005, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You need to bet and raise and stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? The pot's 100 chips, nobody raised preflop. Do you think I'm going to get any action?

Isn't this a good time to slowplay?

[/ QUOTE ]

I check here most of the time--not because I don't want to get chips into the pot (I do), but because CO or button will usually take a stab at the pot. When the action gets back to me, I can evaluate whether or not I should raise (in order to thin the field) or to just smooth call and try to get it in on a later street. When you come out and bet right away, you can't manage the pot as well.

wuwei

12-07-2005, 02:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why? The pot's 100 chips, nobody raised preflop. Do you think I'm going to get any action?

Isn't this a good time to slowplay?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. The best way to play a big pot with a big hand is usually to bet and raise. Sure, once in a while you get lucky when someone makes trips on the river and is willing to put their stack in the middle. More often you end up winning a small pot after giving the field two chances to outdraw you on the cheap.

Betting the flop is important because we need to start pot building. The flop includes an A and a J, and you have 4 opponents. Contrast this board with the other hand where you flopped trip Qs. The argument for slowplaying is much more pursuasive on that hand. Here, the flop is very likely to have hit somebody who is willing to call a bet. Bet half the pot. You'll get called by an A, a J, a gutshot, or all kinds of crap at the $5 level. If you're lucky you might even get raised. Now that we've built a pot, we can get even more chips in on the turn.

Your 6-max instincts would serve you well on this hand, I believe.

Snarf

12-07-2005, 03:09 AM

Hands 2 and 4 look good to me...

As for hand 1.... I don't like how you played it...It worked out in the end 'cuz a donk caught his third jack and figured he was golden. (you didn't lose to AJ did you? thats rare in these tourneys anyways.)...I would say you probably shoulda led the flop, though a weak lead is fine. Donked the turn off (check/cheap bet) and valued the river...Sure - maybe you don't stack the guy THIS TIME...but overall a strategy like that will win more I think.

Hand 3
Looks like villian has the 8 or a busted draw. I think you raised too much on the turn if you're checing the flop. Aren't you screaming out your trips? Heres a spot I small-raise (sometimes click min-raise even) and value the river. Value it highish if you want the aggro bluff look you seem to be going for.

Overall not horrible for the 5s.

SomethingClever

12-07-2005, 04:06 PM

Point taken that this flop is more likely to have hit at least one person.

However, two other things to consider.

1) This is literally the first hand of the tournament.
2) I don't believe people make quite as ridiculous calls on Stars as they do on Party at the $5 level. Since I just started experimenting with the 1TTs the other week, I've flopped a lot of sets, bet out, and had everyone fold.

I think I could have gotten away with somewhere between a min bet and 3x the bb, but, really is it worth possibly an extra 20-120 chips (depending on how many callers I get) versus the risk of everyone folding? If someone makes a 2nd best on the turn or river, I can get their stack.

SomethingClever

12-07-2005, 04:11 PM

Results:

Hand 1: SB had KJ. So in this instance, I took his stack. Trying not to be results oriented, but I still think slowplaying is correct when the only thing I'm really worried about is a backdoor flush.

Hand 2: I read this as a standard blind steal for Button in this situation, and thought he would fold most hands to my push. Unfortunately, he had a legit hand, AQ, called, and took half my stack.

Hand 3: SB called the river bet and flipped over AT, no flush draw. I think I extracted pretty close to the max given his holding.

Hand 4: MP and BB both called. I was ok with that because I had both of them covered so much. I was up against A9 and AK, and my TT held up.