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bones
12-06-2005, 09:08 PM
Table is somewhat donkish, but nobody is in any hurry to give away their chips. Villian fits right in, although his range for raising here is pretty wide.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Button (t1545)
SB (t1680)
BB (t655)
UTG (t1345)
MP (t1075)
Hero (t1700)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1700 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls t745 (All-In).

Flop: (t3345) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t3345) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t3345) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3345

After I pushed this, I winced a little bit. Compelling reasons for pushing or folding?

tigerite
12-06-2005, 09:09 PM
If his range for raising here is pretty wide, it's an insta shove. Trust your reads. I suspect you'll be far ahead of his range here enough to make this +$EV.

tigerite
12-06-2005, 09:13 PM
Even when he calls here, your winrate only has to be ~56%. I am sure it will be with AJs given your read. I mean even if he never folds, his range can be 33+,A4o+,A2s+,KQo,KTs+ ?

pineapple888
12-06-2005, 09:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If his range for raising here is pretty wide, it's an insta shove. Trust your reads. I suspect you'll be far ahead of his range here enough to make this +$EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

This better be one heck of a read, because AJs is not real strong here.

I don't have pokerstove in front of me, but is Villain really raising UTG with weak Aces and pairs? Or am I missing something here?

tigerite
12-06-2005, 09:17 PM
Against a decent opponent I agree. Against a donk this (his range) can be any pretty cards or any ace. That seems to fit right in with the 20% range needed to push over the top for me? The only hands you don't want to see if he calls are a pair or obviously AK/AQ.

bones
12-06-2005, 09:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This better be one heck of a read, because AJs is not real strong here.

I don't have pokerstove in front of me, but is Villain really raising UTG with weak Aces and pairs?

[/ QUOTE ]

It definitely wasn't some sort of ninja read. Just what I'd picked up on his hands and playing style. His range almost definitely included A9, KJ, 55 there, if not a few others.

AQ is usually my cutoff for pushing there, but I've been trying to get a little more aggressive.

ilya
12-06-2005, 09:37 PM
I think this is real marginal as he's raising half his stack UTG....you don't really think he's much looser than something like 66+, A8+, KT+, QJ here, do you?

I'd probably push or fold here depending on how much of an advantage I felt having a huge stack would give me at this table.

TT or AQs, I shove for sure.

p.s. if i somehow *knew* it would be exactly break-even, I would lean towards shoving.

pineapple888
12-06-2005, 09:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This better be one heck of a read, because AJs is not real strong here.

I don't have pokerstove in front of me, but is Villain really raising UTG with weak Aces and pairs?

[/ QUOTE ]

It definitely wasn't some sort of ninja read. Just what I'd picked up on his hands and playing style. His range almost definitely included A9, KJ, 55 there, if not a few others.

AQ is usually my cutoff for pushing there, but I've been trying to get a little more aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, you still also have three to act preflop, and one of them could wake up with AA or KK (or other hands that dominate you, if they are donks).

Looks break-even at best to me, but you were the one at the table, so I suppose you have to go with it.

tigerite
12-06-2005, 09:45 PM
I think AJs is a push first-in here, so I'm not gonna start worrying about if they wake up with a monster when I'm pushing over a raiser /images/graemlins/grin.gif

pineapple888
12-06-2005, 09:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think AJs is a push first-in here, so I'm not gonna start worrying about if they wake up with a monster when I'm pushing over a raiser /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, but that's not the situation here, because you are now second into the pot.

My point remains.

But whatever. On to the next one...

fluorescenthippo
12-06-2005, 10:31 PM
hes saying you shouldnt worry about the blinds having AA or KK here because you dont worry about them having it when you open push

curtains
12-06-2005, 11:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If his range for raising here is pretty wide, it's an insta shove. Trust your reads. I suspect you'll be far ahead of his range here enough to make this +$EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

This better be one heck of a read, because AJs is not real strong here.

I don't have pokerstove in front of me, but is Villain really raising UTG with weak Aces and pairs? Or am I missing something here?

[/ QUOTE ]

by UTG you mean 3 off the button right? Please note that our MP player has 6.5x BB yet, which is not a lot. It'd be pretty stupid to not move allin with 55 in his spot. Anyway I'm away and dont have SNGPT so I don't know the math, but I suspect it's pretty close and that folding is okay, especially with these weird raises of half the stack....they always scare me a little and make me fold my marginal situations.

pergesu
12-06-2005, 11:24 PM
Whoa, looks like someone's been watching too many of my games lately.

"slow down"

bennies
12-07-2005, 06:59 AM
I'd muck without a read. If you are sure his range includes A8o and KJo I like pushing.

pineapple888
12-07-2005, 03:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
hes saying you shouldnt worry about the blinds having AA or KK here because you dont worry about them having it when you open push

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez. When you open push this, your *main* worry is somebody waking up with a monster.

Now, second in the pot, your main worry is the original raiser... *plus* you have the additional monster vig against you.

It's a totally different situation.

TEBPilot
12-08-2005, 03:39 PM
He has committed almost half his stack under the gun. He's pot committed. Unless he's a real weak player, the rest of his money is going in on the flop. I would fold.

Lets suppose that UTG and MP fold to us. I would PUSH with AJs in this situation. Putting pressure on your opponents is +EV.