Flopped trips, action from BB. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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12-06-2005, 05:46 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (8 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3.00 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP3 folds, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Should I just call his raise here or is a 3-bet good?

River: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

I chicken out here. He is probably sitting on a 9 too and the only hands I beat are now 92,93,94,97 and 98. Sure, it sounds like something he can have but judging from the action on the other streets im not sure.

Final Pot: 17.50 BB.

Line check? My conclusion is that I should have slowed down on the turn right?

Aaron W.

12-06-2005, 06:05 PM

Unless BB is a little crazy aggro, I think I slow down when he raises again on the turn. I think even a moderately dumb player would recognize that you might have trips after you bet into him after he capped the flop.

jrz1972

12-06-2005, 06:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My conclusion is that I should have slowed down on the turn right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Most of the time, villain is going to show you A9 or 55.

Eeegah

12-06-2005, 06:10 PM

^^^^^^^^ Villain checked from BB; his range is much bigger than that.

I'm either slowing down at the turn 3-bet or check/calling the river. I'd be interested in arguments why one would be better than the other.

jrz1972

12-06-2005, 06:12 PM

Personally, I would not have 3-bet the turn. Like Aaron W said, Hero has done everything short of taking out full page ad in Card Player to tell villain that he has trips or better, but villain is still in there blasting away. He's not afraid of trips.

tyler_cracker

12-06-2005, 06:15 PM

How about a c/r on the turn? That way, we can just call down if he 3-bets, but if he's going nuts with a badass slowplayed AA or something, we still get 2 bets in on the turn.

Thebram

12-06-2005, 06:17 PM

...grunch...

[ QUOTE ]
Line check? My conclusion is that I should have slowed down on the turn right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think slowing down on the turn is necessary. But I definitely would have check/called the river after he capped the turn.

jrz1972

12-06-2005, 06:24 PM

I think a slowplayed overpair is significantly less likely than something that has us beat.

Villain obviously has something that he thinks is really good. Unless he's a total retard, he's not playing this way with A5 or 88. He either has the case J (in which case our hand may or may not be good depending on villain's kicker) or he has 55, or he has an overpair. At least in my experience, against the typical unknown at this level the order of likelihood is probably

1. Some J
2. 55
(dropoff)
3. Big overpair

Thebram

12-06-2005, 06:30 PM

Villain: "Hero bet out, there's no way he has a 9, so my {66,77,88,TT,JJ,QQ,KK,AA, 92, 93, 94, 96, 97, 98, 9T} HAS to be good here"

I agree that there is some drop-off in likelihood, but just because a .50/1 party-player caps the flop, I'm not fearing the worst just yet.

The turn action, however, is worrisome.

jrz1972

12-06-2005, 06:35 PM

Oh yeah I'm definitely leading the turn.

IMO, the interesting decision is whether to 3-bet the turn. Personally I don't think so, but I could see an argument for sticking in one more raise. I really do not want to see a cap, however.

The way the hand played out, the river decision is not interesting either. Leading the river after you get capped on the turn is spewage. The turn 3-bet is the interesting point in the hand, at least the way I see it.

tyler_cracker

12-06-2005, 06:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
IMO, the interesting decision is whether to 3-bet the turn. Personally I don't think so, but I could see an argument for sticking in one more raise. I really do not want to see a cap, however.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what i was getting at. I wouldn't mind seeing 3 bets go in on the turn here, but i really don't want 4. Thus, i can't bet/3-bet.

Bet/call seems a liiiittle too weak, and it gets 1-2 bets in.

But if we check/raise, we get 2-3 bets in, which seems about right.

How's that?

Aaron W.

12-06-2005, 07:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO, the interesting decision is whether to 3-bet the turn. Personally I don't think so, but I could see an argument for sticking in one more raise. I really do not want to see a cap, however.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what i was getting at. I wouldn't mind seeing 3 bets go in on the turn here, but i really don't want 4. Thus, i can't bet/3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to see villain 3-bet me if I check-raise him on the turn (again, unless you know villain is a bit hyper). How many hands do you think he 3-bets when you check-raise? How many hands do you think he caps when you bet/3-bet? I think the two categories are about the same.

12-06-2005, 07:39 PM

I'd slow down when he raises me on the turn fearing 55 or a 9 with a better kicker. Bet/call turn, check/call river is my line.

Shillx

12-06-2005, 07:49 PM

STOP bet/calling rivers in these spots!!!!!!!!!!

100 of my 6000+ posts have probably been on this topic. When you both have something good, don't bet the [censored] river unless you intend to 3-bet (so you should have 3-bet here, even if you knew it was -EV, that isMO). He calls with a worse hand and raises a better hand. If you check he will bet both worse and better hands so you Win one bet/Lose one bet when you check/call and you Win one bet/Lose two bets when you bet/call. Freakin' Fabulous.

The rest of the hand is up for debate. The river play is just terrible from a game theory stand point.

12-06-2005, 07:50 PM

Somewhere along here you need to be worried he had 55 and flopped a boat.

12-06-2005, 08:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
STOP bet/calling rivers in these spots!!!!!!!!!!

100 of my 6000+ posts have probably been on this topic. When you both have something good, don't bet the [censored] river unless you intend to 3-bet (so you should have 3-bet here, even if you knew it was -EV, that isMO). He calls with a worse hand and raises a better hand. If you check he will bet both worse and better hands so you Win one bet/Lose one bet when you check/call and you Win one bet/Lose two bets when you bet/call. Freakin' Fabulous.

The rest of the hand is up for debate. The river play is just terrible from a game theory stand point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, tell me about it. I slammed my desk for making that move. Betting the river just to call his raise... Dammit.