22: Two level 3 JJ hands

[rbear]

Hand 1

Villian is extremely lag, has already got down to 450, pushed 10 J over a 3x raise, and sucked out.
Do you call the push? Do you open limp this UTG in level 3?

Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: mat6909 ( $1405 )
Seat 3: MuskieDude ( $685 )
Seat 5: ThE_DuKe_swe ( $950 )
Seat 6: Villian ( $845 )
Seat 7: G_Da_Gambler ( $775 )
Seat 8: jimmyloot ( $935 )
Seat 9: Hero ( $730 )
Seat 10: Essett ( $1675 )
Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Js Jh ]
Hero calls [50].
Essett folds.
mat6909 folds.
MuskieDude folds.
ThE_DuKe_swe folds.
Villian is all-In [845]
G_Da_Gambler folds.
jimmyloot folds.
Hero???

Hand 2

More of a line check. Villian #2 has just sucked out on Villian number 1. A7s v AQo all in. Villian 1 is prob tilted a bit. Villian 2 lag. My image is solid.

Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 2: mat6909 ( $1715 )
Seat 3: MuskieDude ( $485 )
Seat 5: Villian 1 ( $270 )
Seat 7: G_Da_Gambler ( $750 )
Seat 8: Villian 2 ( $1845 )
Seat 9: Hero ( $1460 )
Seat 10: Essett ( $1475 )
Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Jd Jh ]
G_Da_Gambler folds.
Villian 2 calls [50].
Hero calls [50].
Essett folds.
mat6909 folds.
MuskieDude folds.
Villian 1 is all-In [220]
Villian 2 calls [220].
Hero is all-In [1410]

Hand 1, I raise 200 first... no need to limp that. If he still pushes, I'm calling with no read. I'm calling ESPECIALLY with your LAG read on him. JJ is a good place to be.

Hand 2, again, I'm raising with JJ. I like the push.

[infinite_loop]

Hand 1: I don't like the limp there at all. You're not looking to flop a set UTG with that stack and that blind level. I think you have to raise. 125-150 would be sufficient. And you should definitely call that push.

Hand 2: Again, I think you should raise JJ here. 200 would be sufficient. And this is one of the easier pushes.

[mlagoo]

both hands i'm open raising, but having not done so, i'm definitely pushing.

[tigerite]

Agree with all the above. I might even push on the first hand, just because if called, OOP on a flop is going to be sucky with the pot virtually equal to my stack, and it's not a HUGE overpush, being 14bb or so.

[rbear]

Thanks everyone. JJ is a hand I've been curious about lately, as remnants of Aleo style had me limping and playing for set value. Is this because JJ is a really tricky hand to play postflop for a new player? Was pretty sure open limping/limping JJ is a bit too weak tight. Thanks for the confirmation.

[tigerite]

Limping JJ is "okay" at levels 1 and 2, but by level 3, the blinds are too big to be doing that, IMHO. I must note, this is only from EP - it's a crime to limp it from MP first-in, for instance.

I don't personally limp it at level 1 or 2 either - but that's a discussion we've had PLENTY times before /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[tewall]

Good point. That (hand 1) would be hard to play, assuming the open raise got called and an overcard floped. What would be the best line, assuming that happened? Go all-in and hope the guy can't call? Bet a half-pot, and hope that takes it down (that doesn't look viable, as it's too much of your stack). Check to induce a bluff, and hope you have the bet hand? Tough choices. (I'd go with the first one; but given that, pushing and hoping someone calls with a worse hand might well be better)

[tigerite]

Well, it'd be a WA/WB situation, so it would depend on the overcard. If it's an ace, play it very passively. If it's a Q, you have to push as there are still overcards which can absolutely screw you over on the turn, and checking through is too risky to your hand. If it's a K, I check with the intention of getting it all in anyway, but this way you might induce a bluff with a naked A or some lower pair, and so forth.

[tigerite]

But this obviously is opponent dependent as well. Whatever way, it's going to suck. I think a push is looking more the option actually here, especially if the table is in any way loose.