Am I not a man?

[Andrew Fletcher]

Table: It's live .5/.10 at my college. Eight-handed. Everyone watches WPT/Rounders/ESPN and most players are weak-loose. One or two have read either Harrington or another book, but they mostly just play tight-weak and can only win if they catch cards. We play with the same group of guys two or three times a week and I've never had a losing session. My table image is tricky and tough to read.

Pre-flop: Hero posts SB, BB posts .10, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP calls, MP+1 calls, LP raises .50, button calls, Hero calls with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, MP+1 folds.

Flop (5 players, $3.10) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gifK/images/graemlins/diamond.gif3/images/graemlins/club.gif. Checked around.

Turn (5 players, 3.10) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, LP bets .25, Button calls, Hero folds....

What do you guys think? Standard?

[beavens]

fold pf.

[Andrew Fletcher]

I understand why you're saying that, but I think I am good enough post-flop (against these players) to not misplay that hand against such a large number of players.

[PoBoy321]

This'd be a lot easier if I knew what you had.

EDIT: nevermind, I found it.

Yeah, fold pre-flop and then fold the turn.

[Hoopster81]

I agree that you should fold pre, but as played I am always leading that turn. Are you check-folding there??

[Andrew Fletcher]

Ace-Five offsuit

[Andrew Fletcher]

Yeah, I'm folding, even to a .25 bet. I find that loose-weak players, particularly the ones in my game, love to slow play innappropriatly. The PF raise could mean QQ or KK. The check, while stupid, might indicate a strong hand. I'm curious if other people have similar experiances.

[4_2_it]

Why play A5o if you are going to fold getting 15:1 immediate odds? If you have the 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif then this is an easy call with the implied odds.

In the future, even if you can outplay your opponents fold this trash. Even a 234 flop only gives you second nuts.

[Andrew Fletcher]

I folded and the river came a blank. The three players left check it around and Q-x took it down.

I was really steaming about how badly I played the hand, but started to think maybe I was just being results orianted. I'm glad to see that my inital reaction seems to be correct. I should have folded PF and led the turn.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
I folded and the river came a blank. The three players left check it around and Q-x took it down.

I was really steaming about how badly I played the hand, but started to think maybe I was just being results orianted. I'm glad to see that my inital reaction seems to be correct. I should have folded PF and led the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your mistake was spawned from the PF call. Easy fold PF.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

What am I missing? Hero is getting 15:1 immediate odds and has much greater implied odds. No way hero is a 15-1 dog to anything but a set, which is highly unlikely given the betting patterns.

We agree pre-flop is bad, but why fold when you are getting proper odds to call? Somebody give some math to prove me wrong.

[djoyce003]

you are such a woman.

Ok repeat after me "I will not call with Ace 5 offsuit if i'm going to fold when I hit my ace"

If you call the preflop bets you can't fold for one stinking bet when you make top pair, dude that's awful.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

What am I missing? Hero is getting 15:1 immediate odds and has much greater implied odds. No way hero is a 15-1 dog to anything but a set, which is highly unlikely given the betting patterns.

We agree pre-flop is bad, but why fold when you are getting proper odds to call? Somebody give some math to prove me wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Easy fold PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

What am I missing? Hero is getting 15:1 immediate odds and has much greater implied odds. No way hero is a 15-1 dog to anything but a set, which is highly unlikely given the betting patterns.

We agree pre-flop is bad, but why fold when you are getting proper odds to call? Somebody give some math to prove me wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was in a previous post a few weeks ago. Hero is getting 15-1, and while that is more than enough odds to play a single hand, I do not think it is enough odds to take a flop against the entire tables range of hands. Hero MAY flop the best hand here now and then, and he usually makes very little when that happens, when he doesnt flop the best hand, it may wind up costing him quite a bit unless he is solid. (Ex AJ5 flop, A24, etc)

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]

What am I missing? Hero is getting 15:1 immediate odds and has much greater implied odds. No way hero is a 15-1 dog to anything but a set, which is highly unlikely given the betting patterns.

We agree pre-flop is bad, but why fold when you are getting proper odds to call? Somebody give some math to prove me wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
This was in a previous post a few weeks ago. Hero is getting 15-1, and while that is more than enough odds to play a single hand, I do not think it is enough odds to take a flop against the entire tables range of hands. Hero MAY flop the best hand here now and then, and he usually makes very little when that happens, when he doesnt flop the best hand, it may wind up costing him quite a bit unless he is solid. (Ex AJ5 flop, A24, etc)

[/ QUOTE ]

You miss my point. Once we get to the flop, we are getting 15:1 with TPNK. We even have implied odds to spike a 5 and take it down. Don't let the pre-flop error impact your post-flop decisions.

I agree that pre-flop he definitely does not have odds to call with A5 multiway.

[DoomSlice]

Wahhh...?? The only way you can't misplay this hand postflop is if you flop the wheel or a 4-flush to your ace!

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]

You miss my point. Once we get to the flop, we are getting 15:1 with TPNK. We even have implied odds to spike a 5 and take it down. Don't let the pre-flop error impact your post-flop decisions.

I agree that pre-flop he definitely does not have odds to call with A5 multiway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I did miss your point. Once we get to the flop we have ace high.

Once we get to the turn we are getting 15-1 with TPNK, and 3 outs they may or may not be good, not to mention we could be drawing dead to the flush. Turn is a clear fold.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You miss my point. Once we get to the flop, we are getting 15:1 with TPNK. We even have implied odds to spike a 5 and take it down. Don't let the pre-flop error impact your post-flop decisions.

I agree that pre-flop he definitely does not have odds to call with A5 multiway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I did miss your point. Once we get to the flop we have ace high.

Once we get to the turn we are getting 15-1 with TPNK, and 3 outs they may or may not be good, not to mention we could be drawing dead to the flush. Turn is a clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think turn is a clear fold, especially given the tiny turn bet. Villain could easily have Qx, a weak K, or just be throwing out a nothing bet because he is in late position and hasn't seen any sign of strength. I think you can at least call this and re-evaluate the river. Anyone raise this weak bet?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You miss my point. Once we get to the flop, we are getting 15:1 with TPNK. We even have implied odds to spike a 5 and take it down. Don't let the pre-flop error impact your post-flop decisions.

I agree that pre-flop he definitely does not have odds to call with A5 multiway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I did miss your point. Once we get to the flop we have ace high.

Once we get to the turn we are getting 15-1 with TPNK, and 3 outs they may or may not be good, not to mention we could be drawing dead to the flush. Turn is a clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are we drawing drawing dead? The flush hasn't hit yet. The same comment could be made if you had AA. Somebody pokerstove (I'm at work) A5o against 4 random hands with this board and show me hero is worse than 15-1. Then I will gladly shut up.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You miss my point. Once we get to the flop, we are getting 15:1 with TPNK. We even have implied odds to spike a 5 and take it down. Don't let the pre-flop error impact your post-flop decisions.

I agree that pre-flop he definitely does not have odds to call with A5 multiway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I did miss your point. Once we get to the flop we have ace high.

Once we get to the turn we are getting 15-1 with TPNK, and 3 outs they may or may not be good, not to mention we could be drawing dead to the flush. Turn is a clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

How are we drawing drawing dead? The flush hasn't hit yet. The same comment could be made if you had AA. Somebody pokerstove (I'm at work) A5o against 4 random hands with this board and show me hero is worse than 15-1. Then I will gladly shut up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, i thought the 3 was a spade. Poor board reading by us!

Hmm, now the turn isnt so clear. Raise gets us to showdown same price as calling down does, but charges draws, so lets make it 2.5 to go and check behind on the river unless we hit our 5.

That is my new vote.